Lifting Nerds
Adrian Ma and Brandon Emslie share discussions and interviews with the fitness community's best science-based researchers and coaches.
Lifting Nerds
S3E18: Judging, Peaking, And Post-Show Blues Shape Natural Bodybuilding
We recap WNBF Calgary with athlete results, and how judging standards play out across stacked lineups. We share training and nutrition tactics for off-season success, plus a clear plan to beat post-show blues with structure and support.
• Calgary trip highlights and vlog mention
• Off-season weight caps and stage return timelines
• Stubborn fat patterns and targeted training myths
• Pro show highlights, peaking twice, and taper value
• Bikini short analysis and judging standards
• Volume experiments for naturals during prep
• Recovery diet steps to navigate post-show blues
• Support systems, food reintroduction, and coaching continuity
If you haven't watched the vlog, hop onto our YouTube channel and check it out. If you like those videos, please like, subscribe, and comment. Also, if there's any particular topics that you want to have us discuss, leave it in the comment section below.
IG: @liftingnerds
Youtube: liftingnerds
Host
@_adrianma
@brandonemslie
It's not been a while. It's been almost two weeks. Or wait, has it been two weeks since the Calgary show?
SPEAKER_00:I think it's been, hasn't it been like a week since? No, it's been yeah, two weeks since the Calgary.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, welcome back, guys. Uh, we do uh apologize for the long wait for this next episode. We've been out to Calgary for the WMBF Calgary Show and the Pro Show, where we met in person and we've posted a vlog for that day on our YouTube channel. So if you haven't watched it, go check it out. It's just like a five-minute vlog. But do check it out. We uh have a couple of interesting uh places that we've been, and then we've briefly touched on uh athletes there. Yeah, so after the show, for some of our listeners who haven't watched our vlog, uh we were there on a couple days, right? I've got there, yeah. I got there on Thursday evening.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I was there Thursday afternoon. So we were pretty much there yeah, like four days since we were there like a good that for a good four days.
SPEAKER_01:We got a chance to visit King's Fitness, so that was very cool. And then uh we also got to meet up with our athletes as well. So yeah, let's how how did your athlete do?
SPEAKER_00:So he ended up coming in second in Masters. Originally, uh, there was a guy in Masters that wasn't actually 40 plus, so we we had him potentially coming third, but then we yeah, um, I think Charlotte or somebody found out that he was actually the guy that was probably gonna win the class.
SPEAKER_01:It was actually Mark. So Mark ended up getting his uh master's men's physique pro card in Calgary. So Toby told me, because Toby was backstage um with Mark, and they were talking, and then he was overhearing, they were talking in the backstage, saying it's like this guy is just like what he's 35 or 36 years old. The guy was supposedly at the center stage, and then they had him disqualified.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So for those who do not understand some of the rules that WMBF has, like all masters are 40 plus. Uh while in the CPA, it is 35 plus. So that's just yeah, it's just a tiny difference, a five-year difference there. And then we have, I think in the W, yeah, WMBF they have Grandmasters, which is 50 plus, and then they they do have like Ultra Grandmaster, but there's just less than a handful of people that will take part in that. But yeah, anyway, so that was exciting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, I think probably what happened, what I'm maybe like assuming is he thought the masters was 35 plus, and then he just ended up going into it. And I'm not sure if maybe somebody like if they should probably check people's ID, like their date and everything, and make sure that matches up. But in this, yeah, because I'm curious why how he was able to get in on stage before then.
SPEAKER_01:But I could get it, I could understand that since like the registration and everything is actually online, though when we fill out the the application forms, you still have to fill in your birthday and all that, and such and such and such. Um, I think it's just when athlete check-in camp comes, the um you you saw it was fairly hectic uh during the athlete's check-in. There was almost 200 people at the check-in area, and things just got very, very busy. So I think that was also one of the causes that it one athlete may have just slipped away. I mean, eventually, even though if he did win his pro card during the awards, come urine tests, we will still know his birthday, and we would have caught him at the end.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, 100%. So it would have worked itself out anyway. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but the unfortunate thing is if that actually did happen, then it was just it was just the award photographs that would that would have mattered.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, makes sense. Makes sense. Well, you and how how was your experience with your athlete?
SPEAKER_01:So I had uh a bikini athlete that took part in the bikini tall group. Funny enough, she was the shortest one in the tall group. She started off 130 pounds when we first worked together, and then she lost 10 pounds throughout the 10 months that we worked together. Not too bad. She's still very new in in the bodybuilding world. She did one show before Calorie, and that was the Winnipeg show, where she placed fifth. Uh, so she yeah, she bumped up, she bumped up one placing. I think it was June. Yeah, it was June. However, her condition and her entire package was much, much better. I would I would say much better from her Winnipeg show. She got a little bit leaner, she dropped uh, I think three pounds more compared to Winnipeg, compared to her Calgary. And uh, and this time I was there, I had eyes on her most of the time, so there it's just the attention that she had from me, and then we fed her nicely, and she placed fourth in a I would consider a much more competitive lineup compared to Winnipeg. Yeah, so I'm very, very proud of that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. No, that's that's awesome, man. Yeah, like with the Kawi show, it's if you guys don't already don't know, it's usually the most competitive show uh in Canada. So it's it's really impressive to see her jumping up that place, man. Because that pretty much shows like if you would have done that same Winnipeg show, she probably would have bumped up to probably third or second, right? I hope so at that show.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. I hope so too. But uh yeah, man, you're you're I think you're athlete. He managed second, right? This uh in Calgary.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, he managed second. And I think like he's he's got like the drive, like he pushed hard. Like we were in like a fat loss phase pretty much since last August with some breaks and stuff in between, but we pulled off like 50 pounds of body fat. Um, he's been dieting for a while. Um, we had to use some pretty extreme numbers towards the end to get that last little bit off. But no man, he he was a trooper throughout it, and now it's just time to transition to off-season, pack on some muscle. Um, we haven't exactly decided on how long of an off season we're gonna do yet, but I'm thinking probably at least two years. Um, because yeah, we got his posing down. Uh, we were able to get to a decent level of conditioning, um, pulled off more body fat than he did uh than he had uh for the Emmitton show. So we come in with a little bit more muscle, we come in uh a little bit leaner, um, keep that posing. It's just gonna get better and better for him. Um and like this time around, like, yeah, like since when he did come to me, he was yeah, roughly like 50, just over 50 pounds above like whatever we want stage weight. This time we're gonna make sure we kind of cap how far he goes with his offseason. So it's he's probably gonna only be like at most like 30 pounds above stage weight, um, just to ensure next time he competes, we don't have to come down so far. And I feel like that's what happens to a lot of guys is especially if they do the first show, they end up going quite ham for a bit, and then all of a sudden you're like 40, possibly even 50 pounds above stage weight, and then yeah, it just puts you in a position that makes it a little bit more challenging to get down to stage conditioning.
SPEAKER_01:I'm curious for your athlete. So my athlete's still quite young, she's still in her young 20s, so she's she can handle a lot more volume, and she just just definitely needs time in natural bodybuilding. How old is your athlete?
SPEAKER_00:He is oh man, I would have to double check on his jacket for I I can't think of it. Is he as old as I am or is he older than me? Oh, I believe he's older than you, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, no way.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, he looks amazing for uh for being older than me.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, he man, he he did good. Like you can tell too by I always uh tell people like when you see like um your face like sunk in that you you know you push to some extremes. And uh I find some people like yeah, like genetically they lose more of their body fat in their face first, and or that's one of the first places where it comes off. Yeah, and uh it's always interesting to see where it comes off in certain individuals. Some people it's its arms, some people I've even had I remember, I think it was Shane, yeah, his arms would just take forever to get super lean, but he would have like a shred at midsection, his obliques, his serratus, everything's popping like crazy, but it's like, oh, like your arm still needs something to come off. So it's always interesting working with different athletes to see where that body fat comes off first, and just being able to continue push to get the get it off where you need it, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it and you never know until they actually reach that point in body fat. And as a coach, you'll probably have to just think it's like, okay, what do I do now? Like, we're doing everything we possibly can, and stubborn body fat parts are just not coming off, and show day is coming. So not to give up so much coaching tips, but in these scenarios, would you make changes or would you just uh it's just yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Most of the time with that, like since you don't know where it's gonna pull from first, it's just you just need enough time with the diet. So you just kind of have to keep pushing until eventually that area you start to lose body fat from it. Like, yeah, there's a study on certain individuals where they I believe they did some strength training for the target tissue where they want to get leaner um to mobilize fat in that area, and then they do cardio right after, and it suggests that you could potentially mobilize more fat from that area by doing that. But I don't think it was like a very significant thing. Like I would have to look back and review it. Um, but I know for some people they would like say, for example, if they're had a lot of fat still on their glutes, train their glutes and then perform like Stairmaster or something after to potentially continue mobilizing from that area. I've never really noticed it work in effect. Like I do notice, for example, with Travis, like he does like a lot of cards, he does a lot of sports, and his legs are naturally quite lean. That could just be a genetic factor where he's his legs are naturally lean and he naturally just has like shredded glutes, even if his upper body or some other parts have a bit more fat on them, could just be where body fat comes off first for him. But I've always seen it. Um I've seen a little bit of it, but I I don't think it's worth investing a lot of time and effort into.
SPEAKER_01:I agree, I agree. Now, moving on to our next topic. I think this year is the most I've seen you in person out of so many years that we've been recording. We've seen you twice.
SPEAKER_00:No, you get yeah, it would have been three times because yeah, Clona's show and then Edmonton show and then yeah, Calgary's show. Calgary.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, sick of me yet?
SPEAKER_00:No badness, it's the fun. It's always good, always a good time, man.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, every time we meet, it's always always a good night. I mean, Calgary was fun. Calgary was very, very fun. We had uh most of the gang there and most of their crew there, so and then everybody is just so awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Um I think it was probably because we were both out of prep too. We both are well fed now, so we're not as irritable. Yeah, so it's I think that's and we well, there's still stress of being like having to work make sure her clients are good, but yeah, I think I think Pro Show was fun, no. Oh, yeah, yeah, that was fun.
SPEAKER_01:Pro show was fun. But um, yeah, speaking of the pro show of uh Calgary this year, we've had a uh a much more different lineup compared to the pro shows that we've watched in 2024 and 2023. Um, but before we get into the pro show, um, I just want to rewind back to the amateur show when we're talking about our clients or my athlete that came in bikini tall when I asked her about this. So she did say she was quite happy with the outcome based on the lineup and just setting the expectation on what her package is gonna look like. She did say being as competitive as she is, naturally, she did say that the lineup was strong and her placing in top five was uh yeah, she's actually quite happy with that outcome. So I'm glad to hear that. And I think her placing was makes sense, I would say. And yeah, it wasn't like lack or anything like that. I think it's the overall package was pretty good. How about your athlete? Was he happy with it or were you happy with it?
SPEAKER_00:He he seemed happy with it, man. Like just like uh your athlete, like we were able to bump up the placement by one from the Emmonton show, we were able to bring a better look to the stage. Um, he did compete in the open as well. Uh the open was uh very stacked class, like it is every single Calgary show. And like for him, genetically in like the midsection, like he that's where it comes down to sometimes at the end of the day, like with Man Sek, if you don't have like those those abs that are very prominent, it's very hard to place well against somebody that does. Bradley has like a great taper and everything, but I think just that mid-section being able to get a little bit more condition would help him. Um, but yeah, it's you he was he was happy with it, man. Like um, I think he was pretty stoked for it to be finally done too after pushing for so long. Um, but uh no man, yeah, yeah, it was it was good.
SPEAKER_01:What was Bradley? Is he was in the out open short, tall, or medium? Because there was three classes. It was in the open medium, yeah. Oh, it was in open. Oh, so it was um what was his name? His um the guy that won. Um Ezob as Ezobar or something like that.
SPEAKER_00:What's he? I can probably I guess he doesn't have his name. Yeah, I think it's uh he won at um He got his pro card that day. Yeah, I think did he win the pro show too?
SPEAKER_01:No, he placed either yeah, he placed third or second.
SPEAKER_00:Oh right. Yeah, he was he was oh actually no, he didn't even place top third. Or was that the class? No, that's the short class, right? That he was in. Yeah, so he placed second.
SPEAKER_01:Who?
SPEAKER_00:Um I'm just looking at the photos right now. So as in Red Uh for the Pro Show.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, Pro Show?
SPEAKER_00:The guy in the red shorts that won Bradley's class.
SPEAKER_01:So Bradley was in the short, in the short division?
SPEAKER_00:Or he was in the medium, but with the pro they only had a short and a tall, right?
SPEAKER_01:Pro show.
SPEAKER_00:Because they had masters and then they had a short uh ProMan ProMan's physical. Oh, right, right, right, right. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, Ezel, Ezel was yeah, he changed his shorts. He had a blue shorts uh on amateur day, yeah, and then he changed it to the red shorts. And then yeah, he was in the same class as Tanner.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, Tanner, Tanner looked awesome too. I think he he definitely made some significant improvements um from this year to I think I think it was two years ago that he competed last. So I remember he was competing against Adam in the clone show.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, he got his program in Kelowna, no?
SPEAKER_00:Or yeah, for him. Yeah, yeah, it was Kelowna.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah, yeah. So Tanner, so Tanner came really close. Um from the angle I was watching, I would have given it to Tanner for first place.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but like I think it was just the other guy had a little bit more of a taper. Um I can't remember his name that won the the toll, but yeah. Yeah, the French dude. He he just had a little bit more of the taper. He has really big arms and really wide shoulders, too. So I think that's what benefited him. But I think, yeah, um Tanner just came in a bit fully, like he peaked very, very well for it. Um, I think maybe the back pose uh I can't.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, his back pose was one of his weaker ones. I was talking to um some of the judges. Yeah, so his back pose was some of the weaker ones. But I mean, if Ezobard, if he just peaked for the pro show, if he took the package from his amateur show and brought it to the pro show, man, he I think Tandor would have a tough time beating him.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, oh 100%, man. Yeah, and that's the always the tricky thing about doing uh an amateur one day and then pro show the next day, because then you have to manage those peaking variables and make sure, especially if you were feeding quite heavy in the morning or something on the show day, and then that's gonna go into like the next day. So yeah, you just gotta be very careful that you're not you're not blown over a spilling.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. But even though no matter what package you brought on that day, you stand up against Leroy's client and think that guy's endming, man. This guy is insane. Yeah. There's just yeah, there's just no way.
SPEAKER_00:There's just no way he he uh he just he's just got so much density and like just the muscle bellies pop so nicely that yeah, it's it's so hard to compare against that. There's just no way we can beat him. And then bodybuilding, uh bodybuilding was pretty good too. I did notice it was There was only like three people, yeah. Yeah, like the guys were pretty solid that were competing, but yeah, like I it was weird to see that it came down from last year. I don't know if if it's because of the classic physique class two that's in there that some you can only pick one. So, like, because if there was only bodybuilding, there would have been, yeah, like seven guys in that class. But since I think there's bodybuilding and classic, and you can only pick one, I think that's probably what made the classes a little bit slower.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, it basically splits. There's three people in bodybuilding, and there's four people in classic. So ta-da! There's your there's your seven.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, 100%, 100%.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, hold on. There was uh wait, I'm looking at the wrong one. So what I looked at was the m there's three people in master's uh bodybuilding. There was I think another three people in um in open yeah in open bodybuilding.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, and then there was uh four in classic physique. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So damn, so if there if classic physique didn't exist, then we potentially may have just a tiny bit more bodybuilders. But I I don't know. I don't remember this very well compared to 2024. It's feels like there's a significantly less competitors uh on the uh on the bodybuilding stage for pro shows.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, and I'm not sure because I I remember like Jeff Alberts was saying I know like he had some stuff happen where he was initially gonna compete at the Calvary show as well. So it's yeah, it's always kind of uh like because I remember when Alberta Nunes competed that one year, I think there was probably what yeah, that was 2022 or 2023.
SPEAKER_01:No, it was 22 because that's 22 I competed, and I saw him. That's the first time I saw him in person, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because I I think there was six, probably, yeah, like six or seven or something like that.
SPEAKER_01:Six for open bodybuild, because I knew I sort of knew three of them, yeah, including Alberto Nunes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, it makes sense, man. Makes sense, but uh yeah, no, again, like a big turnout from Answith Zeke. Um, bikini was a pretty solid turnout. Did you mind? Pro show? Yeah, the pro show.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so question for you. Now, short class. So there's a couple of faces that we recognize from the pro-bikini short class. Now, first place came to uh wonderful lady called, I think she's called Anna or something like that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think that sounds right. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That sounds right. So Anna's uh a new face. We've uh I haven't seen her before. First first time I've saw her, she came in at amateur show. Uh she yeah, and then she just won it, and then and then she won it all at the pro show. She she so she just took that first place all the way into the pro show. And then I recognize the second place. I don't remember where I saw her, and then Lexi. Lexi Bold came at third place. Yeah. So I'm just gonna pull up the picture if you guys are not seeing this on YouTube. So if you want to see where we're what we're talking about, so go and see our YouTube will post a picture of the lineup of a pro bikini short. Okay, so what are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_00:Let's see, just from that pose, I guess you're top five. Yeah. Um, no, that's it. Seems like I feel like the short generally tends to be a bit more stacked than the tall. Yeah. So I feel like every lady here has like a really good, really good taper. Um, the one like uh the lady Anna in the middle, like even when she was at the amateur show, like you could just tell by her physique, like just how well balanced it is for bikini. That like I feel like she's like a world-level competitor. I feel like if she goes to world, like she's probably gonna do quite well. Lexi Bolt, like she looks really good, especially her front pose. Like, I would say like her front pose almost even looks better than second, but I'm not sure how like the side and back poses of uh the lady in second look. Um, she looks very familiar too. I feel like I've seen her second place. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, second place and and fourth place looks familiar. I don't remember where I saw them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm so bad with names sometimes. I just gotta get better with yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'm not sure about the maybe yeah, maybe I have to like rewatch the pro show again for the entire lineup. Now, this is only the top five that we're just showing here, and then there's there's much more other competitors for the pro short. It was a very big class. I was I'm just not 100% sure. It's just my personal opinion. I mean, like the lineup is okay. I have no problem with Anna placing first. I mean, that I think she's a very well deserved to be first place. Um, I would probably place Lex second.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I can see that personal bias, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I I didn't see the pro show. Um, I saw the awards, but I didn't see the pre-judging in person. Um, so that's where I missed out on that. So I'm not sure I didn't get a chance to see all the poses, so I can't really say too much. Because that that's the one thing, too, with sometimes with the photos of the awards, like some people aren't either flexing as much or they're just like their pose isn't like a spot on when they're doing the awards. So unless you kind of look through everything, and um, sometimes with like when people get the awards, like maybe they're not pumped up, or like like yeah, so like always looking at the look from pre-judging is always gonna be the best to determine like yeah, what somebody deserves.
SPEAKER_01:I agree. Now I think the link is still available on the WMBF Calgary Instagram page. It's I think it's just the link for the pro show. I don't think the amateur show is still there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and that's one thing, like with like videos too, like sometimes videos don't do people justice. Oh, I've seen that. Hell yeah. I've seen that. I can't remember, I think it was the Ontario show probably like two or three years ago. There's this one guy that like looked ridiculous, like when you see him in person, but like through video, it's like his detail just wasn't there, like he didn't pop as much. But then when you're like people that when you're actually there, I think he came to the Calgary show as well, and you're like, holy shit. And then I remember somebody saying on like the video, he's like, Oh man, why is this guy in the position where he is? It's like, no, dude, like you see him in person, it's a whole different story.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, so it's the video does them dirty.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so there's certain people where yeah, the video just unfortunately does people dirty, um, especially if they their say, for example, their apps aren't quite as prominent, but when you're in person, they're prominent enough to still see like a lot of detail. I find that's usually the case, is like since the video is so far away, you can only really see if there's like like the bigger kind of abids and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01:Big thanks to True North Spursburg for sponsoring this video, the gear I use and I love. Use code TEAMNS for 50% off your first purchase. And now back to the video. I'm I'm okay with the short. Um, did you get oh, you didn't get to watch the tall either, right?
SPEAKER_00:No, yeah. So that's where I remember you saying that uh I don't know if I agree with it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I don't know. Yeah. Um, but I don't know if we want to get into that.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's that's the thing with judging too. Like everybody, like though there is a strict, like um because you're like, yeah, the guideline is usually like if you look at the world stage person that wins worlds, like that's the person that you're trying to get everybody to like judge them against, is like that person at worlds that got their like won the whole show or won overall, like that's like the prime k. Like, that's where everybody should be closest to. So I find sometimes it's tough with like amateur shows, or if everybody has a slightly different physique, that it's just yeah, as a judge, it can be more complicated trying to be like, okay, like this person looks good from like maybe like that X factor, but they don't have the sound much muscle, or they're a bit more conditioned. So I find bikini is yeah, definitely one of the classes that's probably the hardest to judge from from that perspective, but uh and yet is the is still one of the most popular classes in WMBF.
SPEAKER_01:Um now speaking of CPA, we have Fit Model now, and so that's a whole bunch of ex-bikini athletes now just downsize themselves to take part in the fit model, which I think it's cool. Yeah, that's a much more entry-level friendly category to get to go up with yeah, I I agree with that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think it's it's a good way for because like to do fit model, like you could probably make the Olympia naturally. Like, I don't I feel like that's one class that's in the CPA. Well, like you there's probably still people taking stuff, but like this like one class, if you have good genetics, like you don't have to be as muscled and you don't have to be as conditioned. So like I feel like that's one class like at the Olympia where there could actually be some natural people. I know there's some bikini girls and stuff like that say they're natural, which they could be, but like it's the chances are if slimmer if you're trying to win and you there's a lot of money on the line, stuff like that. A lot of people are gonna do whatever it takes, and yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So after the this Calgary show, now I know we competed this year and it was a busy year for us. Do you have any feelings or any tingling feelings after watching the pro show?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man, it definitely like that's one reason I love going to these shows, is like when you watch it, it just gets you pumped up to compete again. So if you're ever feeling in kind of like a in a bit of a funk with your training or you're feeling in a funk with bodybuilding, literally just go to a bodybuilding show. And usually it just sparks that energy. Everybody's just yeah, so from that standpoint, it definitely is getting me excited to compete again. Um, it's definitely making me think, okay, I I gotta make some big improvements or else it's not gonna go over well. So uh best of both worlds, like it's motivating me, but it's also like making me think, okay, like I might need a little bit more time to to compete at that level.
SPEAKER_01:What's the goal for you if you were to step on a pro show?
SPEAKER_00:Pro show besides winning. Yeah, like it like I would like to, I would say even just top three, I'd be pretty comfortable with being able to get to a point where I can place top three. Right. Um, but just to yeah, get to do like a pro debut and just go through that would be awesome. It would be awesome also to make it to worlds, but I know if I'm not gonna be placing like even top two in like the cavalry show, I'm probably gonna be doing very bad at uh worlds just because it's just another level. So um I want to try to get to a point where yeah, I can actually place top two at like the Calvary show and then go to Worlds and see if I can make like a top five placement. Um, that might be three three years down the line, that might be like another decade away to get to that level, but we'll see. Like, I'm I'm always down just to keep grinding, and I I love the process, so I'm I'm not too worried about that. How about you, man? Like, for you doing like the masters, like what's your main goal? Like, I know we were chatting a little bit of even potentially competing next year. Like, are you still thinking about competing next year? Are you still gonna give yourself more time or where are you at with that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I don't know yet. Just by looking at the lineup, there is a factor that there's not as many competitors in masters compared to open. And uh as an athlete, you understand this, and I think a many, a majority of competitors are also understand. Like I'd rather place dead last in a very competitive lineup than win first place in just by myself.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, makes sense.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So I I'd rather just go up against somebody who's have a very similar physique as I have, and then that way is fun for the competitor as yeah, and just make the judge's job just a tiny bit harder. I think that's where my competitiveness actually kick in. So I'd rather do that. So I'm not sure what to do. I haven't really watched any pure previous men's physiques masters at the worlds, I don't recall them. So I really want to see what the caliber is right there. I can expect it to be high, but how high is I don't know. But again, yeah, if I'm able to make it to worlds, even I don't know how many people there. I don't even know if there's going to be 10 people in the masters uh at worlds. I mean, if there is 10, uh then I just hope I don't come dead blast. Yeah, that's that's my hope. Uh at the pro level. But yeah, getting in a pro debut, I think, is definitely a must. Uh because now training at the uh above 40 is is gonna be hella different. Uh we are just training very hard, very, very differently, just to maintain muscle mass instead of actually getting a good amount of change in the body. So maybe one year or maybe two years, we may even lose a bit of muscle mass by gain and some more greeniness in the muscles itself.
SPEAKER_00:You you never know, like you might like because I like when I look at all the guys from team 3D MJ, like especially in their 40s, most of them are still making some good progress. Like Eric Helm's still making good progress, like Bertle's still making some good progress. So I still think there's potential to see that growth. Like, it might mean like training's gonna be slightly more intense, there's slightly more volume. Like I seen seems like, especially from Eric's perspective, like he's been pushing some pretty extreme amounts of volume that he does seem to be responding well too. Um, I think Bertle, I can't that's one of the questions we should have asked him too on his training volume. But I think he's still more in like that kind of moderate zone. Like, I don't think he's too extreme with it, or or like too, like he's not he's probably more kind of in the in the middle when it comes to volume. Yeah, so man. Yeah, well, that's that's true too. Um, but I think I remember with Eric, I think he was still pushing his volume quite high, even with being like super close to the show. So um, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because when we talked to him when he was on here, he did say that he experimented with a lot of different volumes, like low volume, high volumes, and he likes the high volume for I don't know what reason. Um I'm experimenting with another with another uh different type of trading. I'm doing lower volume, so it's just two to three sets per exercise. Um, but it's a very high intensity. So we're talking about very heavy loads, we're talking about somewhat in the 10 and below rep ranges. Well, maybe six and above and maybe 15 and below. And then we're talking about like very controlled tempos. You you've seen them. Yeah, yeah, I did it with the vlog. You watched it, yeah. Go watch the the uh well, no, it's not in the vlog.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we could even turn that into its own kind of thing too, but um, I guess it's for the yeah, for the true north. But yeah, no, that makes sense, man. Yeah, like I I find it's like even uh I remember looking at um Jeff Nipper, like he uh started training quite low volume for his uh fat loss phase that he's currently in right now, and he he loves that approach. Um, I do find it generally works well, even for my clients, especially during the competition prep, pulling volume down but making sure intensity is still there. I do notice people, even from like a fat loss perspective and the weight trajectory, it tends to trend uh more predictable. Whereas if I have the volume to be too high, I feel like a lot of guys just get tend to be more inflamed and training sessions just aren't as enjoyable and they're not pushing quite as hard. So if you lower the volume, like usually they can get some really good sets in there without having like more of what you could say is like junk volume towards the end. Um, so yeah, I I do see uh a case for that. Um, I did experiment with some like quite high volume, like this last block before this one, where especially like the last five weeks of it, I was probably averaging around 20 sets per muscle group per week. And like it was good for the first little bit, but like towards like the last two weeks, I was just like, man, like it's just it's really hard to keep the intensity where it should be when you're doing that much volume. So I I feel like there's a case for maybe having that much volume every once in a while, like slowly working your way up and have a couple weeks with super high volume and then pulling down. Because I I did notice after I pulled down, um, probably that super compensation effect were the next two weeks. I was like, oh shit, like my physique's looking so much better now when I'm training low volume. But I think that came from doing the high volume first. But yeah, it's always fun playing around with that. I think that's what makes at this stage of training so fun is just you can experiment with like three-month blocks of like higher volume, slightly lower volume, see, see how things work best for you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I agree. And I think that also applies to not only um at uh like ourselves as coaches, but also our athletes. Now, after the show, now, as experienced athletes as such as yourself and myself, we have a very clear uh goal that we want to achieve, you know, after what's next, after our, let's say, our pro card win, uh, and we plan out our next sort of we plan out our next uh competition and what we want to achieve. Now, I couldn't say the same about other other athletes unless somebody tells them or a coach actually plans out, you know, this is what we're gonna do next. But we can talk about something that WMBF Canada has been talking about for years, and I think it's a good opportunity for us to just share this with uh a lot of our listeners is it's what what after what comes after uh post shows. Uh I think there's many people who struggle from this, especially for first or second time competitors. Now for you, how would you approach the uh what we quote unquote call post show blues?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it's it's usually a time, yeah, where like you don't really feel like you have much going on. And like it's a weird time because the hormones aren't really at their best. Like you're just finished a show, testosterone is lower, you're kind of in this weird like limbo where it's like, okay, like what should I do now? You were just so locked into something for the past six months, it could have been a year where you're just going ham with a specific goal, and like it was really driving you to go to the gym, it's really trying driving you with nutrition. And if, for example, you do a show and like maybe you don't place as well as you wanted to place. Um, for some people, that can make you even more motivated to come back even better next time. Some people can kind of make, oh, I don't know if I want to do this again. And sometimes people fall away from the sport and like fall away from like training in general because they don't have like a specific goal in mind within like the next six months. Um, so I find this is where people tend to get into that mindset, and especially if they're getting into like some eating disorder, like binging for a little bit as their hunger is so high and they're seeing their physique kind of fade away. Um, all these can kind of contribute to people just not feeling good mentally. So it's very important during that bookshow period to have an actual game plan in terms of the recovery. Like, okay, like we don't want to just go to like like competition prep mode to oh, just eat whatever you want, do what you were doing in your past off season and just follow your hunger cues because you can blow up and gain like 30, 40, 50 pounds within like three, two to three months. So you still want to make sure you have structure. So setting yourself up with um, I know team through DMG quotes like the recovery dot, where you're trying to gain an appropriate weight of gain per week or per month so that you're feeling you're getting to a healthier body fat percentage to feel normal. I do find having little goals of like, okay, like thinking about when you're gonna potentially compete next, or having like a trajectory, okay, like we're gonna try to aim for this weight range within this time frame so you have something to work towards. Um, I do notice like right after competing, generally having like two or so weeks of kind of lighter, fluffier training, just kind of getting in there and literally just having fun with it, I find is is a nice thing post-show for the first two weeks, and then really starting to get structure with your training after those two weeks, working on body parts that you need to improve upon. Um and and having a game plan with that. Because yeah, if you're going post-show and you're just kind of uh I don't know what to do, like it's it's probably gonna not end so well. How about you, man? Like, is there anything specifically you do post-show to ensure that like you keep your motivation a good spot and have something to work towards?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so that's a really good question. So there's a split pretty much in the middle. There are either athletes uh would want to compete, continue competing post-show, and there are athletes who just say that, okay, I've tried this, this is not for me. I want to do something else. So the route is very, very different. I I agree with the recovery diet, regardless if you're going to compete again or if you're just going to try bodybuilding once and have it in your bucket list. Now, both ways, I think the most important one is of course having a support system around you. So that's what we are, that's what we are here to do for you. Reach out to friends and reach out to I would say similar competitors that are experiencing the very same thing. Now, we can guarantee many individuals who were also in the same show as you, they would they struggle with the same thing. It's not you're not alone in this. So it's cool to make friends on show day and get through the next couple weeks together. Hey, you might make some new friends, they might motivate you to do something else together, or perhaps even compete again each other with with each other again. So having a good support system is a good thing. And then um, I agree, you know, just eating uh slowly eating your way back up since you've been prepping for let's say six months plus just to get down to that body weight. Uh your body's more used to having that sort of diet within your system. So my recommendation is really to eat the same thing now, just increase the volume and then just start slowly introducing different variants of foods within your system. I think these type of stuff is pretty much in the uh 3D MJ's uh recovery diet thing. So diet front upfront, I think that's a very, very good pointer. Reaching out for a good support system is also uh is another thing, and just really, you really need to talk to somebody.
SPEAKER_00:One thing you yeah, you don't want to do is like if you have a coach, don't drop off your coach right during that period, because especially the one month after, because that's usually like that part is usually tougher to stay on top of things than the whole competition practice out. Because like that last part, because like you're it's a weird feeling to be in if you've never experienced it before with hunger levels being super high, where you maybe you do end up engorging on food like one day, and you're like, Okay, I'm good. I'm never gonna I I I feel good, I'm not gonna eat this much, and then all of a sudden, two days later, your hunger's back to where it was, and you're like, Oh shit. So it can be a weird place to be at mentally if you are somebody that especially throughout the prep got like a very extremely high food drive at the end of it. Um just having something letting you know, okay, like this is normal, like you are like this happens pretty much to majority of competitors post-show where they they feel like they just can't stop eating. So I think I feel like just understand that that's normal, that this is eventually gonna get better, that you're not gonna feel like this forever. Um, because I know for me, like the first couple of times I did it, I was like, man, like this is like when am I gonna actually feel normal? When am I gonna actually start feeling like I can eat like a regular person? Um, and just understand like that, it just takes time. Like it might be um two months for somebody, it might be three months. Uh, depending on how far you dug and how brutal prep was, like, it could potentially extend to six months of having a higher food drive than you normally would. But understand, like, over time, like you are gonna get settled into back to a normal healthy body fat. You might overshoot it a little bit. You might notice, oh shit, like my weight's up higher than it was before I even started this competition prep. But your hunger hormones will eventually start to downregulate, you will start to eventually normalize as long as you are still taking action with your gyms, as long as you're still making some good food choices. I would highly recommend against is post-show stop training altogether, stop caring about your food altogether, and then just eat as much as you possibly want. Because like that's where things are gonna overshoot a lot. And if you get to the point where you're overshooting and you're still having very poor behaviors, like not training, like eating like very calorie-dense foods, you're gonna be holding a lot higher than you were before you even start your competition prep.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that even goes for potentially non-future competitors, just eating the back the same thing. It's mainly also not only for your brain, it's also for your gut health. If you've been on a more stricter diet for throughout your prep, if you're gonna introduce a whole different lot of foods within your system at all at one time, it's not gonna feel good either.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I do say like there it's okay to have like maybe a free meal in there. Like if you're having like you're good, you're doing a recovered diet, like you got some plans with friends. Yeah, of course, like throw that free meal in there, but make sure that you still have structure on other days and make sure that that free meal isn't just an excuse to be like, okay, I'm just gonna binge and have 10,000 calories a day. Like, yeah, like if that does happen, like again, like the biggest thing with binging, because I know like most first-time competitors post show, they're gonna have at least oftentimes one binge. Um, the trick is to like just accept it happens and then just move on. Like, the worst thing you can do is have this crazy binge and like beat yourself up for it, restrict severely the next couple of days, and all of a sudden create another binge and then have this binge restrict cycle goal because that's just gonna lead to more weight gain than if you were to like stay have this binge and then eat normal again. Um, that's going to be a lot better for your mentally. Um, and also like you're not gonna have this extreme spike in hunger and then not, and then extreme spike in hunger and then not, it's gonna kind of level out a bit more. Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_01:So those are some of the pointers that we wanted to bring out post-show. Uh, so if you are uh a competitor and if you need somebody to talk to, of course, we are always open. But any final words before we close out?
SPEAKER_00:No, man. Like again, yeah, it was it was always fun seeing you again at the Carrie Show end. And again, everybody that watched your vlog, uh, thanks so much for continuing to support us and everything like that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. If you haven't watched the vlog, uh hop onto our YouTube channel and uh check it out. If you like those videos, please like, subscribe, and comment. Uh, also in this video, if there's any particular topics that you want have to have us discuss, leave it in the comment section below, too. We're more than happy to uh discuss on some of these topics that you guys may be interested in. But uh otherwise, uh stay tuned for our next episode. We'll uh see you guys next time. Peace.