Lifting Nerds
Adrian Ma and Brandon Emslie share discussions and interviews with the fitness community's best science-based researchers and coaches.
Lifting Nerds
S3E17: The Mindset behind Bodybuilding, Contest prep, and Sustainable fitness feat. Alberto Nunez
In this full-length episode, we sit down with Alberto Núñez, professional natural bodybuilder and coach with 3DMJ, to dive deep into the realities of training, nutrition, and mindset for long-term success in fitness.
Alberto shares insights on:
- The evolution of bodybuilding and his personal journey.
- Contest prep strategies, peak week, and recovery post-show.
- Training philosophies for both competitive athletes and lifestyle clients.
- How to balance longevity, performance, and aesthetics.
- The mental side of coaching and being coached.
Whether you’re preparing for a competition, trying to maximize your training, or simply want a healthier relationship with fitness, this episode delivers both practical advice and inspiration.
IG: @liftingnerds
Youtube: liftingnerds
Host
@_adrianma
@brandonemslie
yeah, thanks for coming on. Um, we usually just have a very casual conversation. We have a list of questions that we do want to ask, but, yeah, it's great to have you here and um, yeah, so how's uh now? Everybody who does follow, who doesn't know bird aways? He's one of the. He's really the top dogs in natural bodybuilding. You guys should definitely follow him and follow his bodybuilding journey right now. Uh, when's your? Uh, what's your contest right now?
Speaker 2:so, uh, november 8th it was supposed to be november 1st I was going to go do that big anbf show in austria, but just certain personal logistics didn't allow for that. Uh, so now it's just going to be the mayhem, it's going to be worlds, and I'll probably sneak in, uh, an npc show like somewhere in there, because they're everywhere and you can sign up the day before. Uh, there's no poly, five minutes on stage and you're done. Uh, it's just like a pickup game of of bodybuilding, basically. So, seven weeks out as of right now, in some days, wow, yeah, that's, that's Wow.
Speaker 1:That's really coming up. And so a little bit of history. First time I've seen Berto in person you probably don't remember this was back in 2022. You came to Calgary for your pro show. You did very, very well, and then there was a big wave of topic on how you developed your back to be like an absolute tortoise shell. It was amazing to actually see that in person. So that was the first time I actually saw you.
Speaker 1:I was still I was like literally nobody, so you probably didn't really see me in the back, but I was like I was a little bit starstruck and I was just in the back. I was like, oh, little bit starstruck and I was just in the back, like, oh my god, this is brutal, but that was uh, that was my first time to see you. And then it's like that, that physique was absolutely amazing and just watching you over the years and evolved from what I thought it was, uh, your peak and that wasn't it. Just if you guys have watched him, uh, year after year, you've managed to develop your entire body and that is actually really amazing. So we're really, really curious to see what's going to be the new package that you bring in about eight weeks. So, speaking of which, what did you do within these couple of years, differently from before, when you trained?
Speaker 2:Yeah, man. So I did some things right at the start, but that will only make sense once. I kind of bring it full circle back to when it wasn't going right, especially for back musculature, and then more recent times where we had some epiphanies. So it all really started, I guess, like post lockdown, I definitely needed to be reinvigorated when it comes to, like, my bodybuilding training, cause even before that I think I was mostly focused on the squat and good morning, because I'm like man, I just don't feel like training. We all hit those stints. You train long enough, you will. So I'm like, oh, I'll hit those stints, you train long enough, you will. So I'm like, oh, I'll just do these, get my squat up, get my good morning up. And then lockdown happened and oh shoot, I missed bodybuilding again. It's like please take me back. So then, when gyms opened up again, I was really just ready to get after it and create a better physique.
Speaker 2:And this is where, somewhere along there, I stumbled upon K cassim hansen's work and the first thing wasn't necessarily it was controversial. It was a like letting your scapulas move when you are and not keeping them retracted when you're pressing. And I'm like no, that goes against everything. We've always been doing it this way, that that way, and you know I gave it a shot, not just in practice but also, you know, did my own research and and I'm like you know what, I'm going to give it a try and all of a sudden, like a lot of the shoulder pain I was dealing with kind of just evaporated. It felt like more back brain dominance that are like front brain dominant, pressing. I was just pressing. I'm like man, this guy knows some stuff. Eventually I found out he's actually like 40 miles from me, closer at the time and, um, through many visits to his dojo is is how I would put it like he, uh, I got a lot of the biomechanics stuff that you see, especially in tiktok, is like a game of telephone, like I don't know if you guys have ever told someone something and then they pass along. You're like that's not what I even said, not even remotely close, uh, but like if you go back to what you know I think to a large extent has influenced people you don't want to come to. Like yo, anatomy and like how muscles function is fun and it's worth. Like learning, it's like pop up the hood of your car every once in a while that sort of deal.
Speaker 2:Through him I learned a lot of just good strategies, primarily, like we sweat angles in the this part of your sternum but for some reason people don't think it applies to like the back, which is a much more complicated muscle group. So it was through that taking into consideration like the back, which is a much more complicated muscle group, so it was through that, taking into consideration like the strength curve and how it's different from pressing movements and how most people can go virtually their whole life not really challenging like the most lengthened part of the range of motion, basically applying all those principles started to see some traction finally there. And then, like I was able to go back to like the beginning and why, perhaps as an amateur, I had a better back and that was because I was kind of creating this uh, strength curve that's a little bit more similar through to pressing, through what is basically cheaty rows, right Cheaty rows, in that you kind of let that thing go and that inertia, as you have to, as it goes away from you and you have to bring it back, kind of makes the start of the lift more challenging. It's a very crude, very archaic way of basically accomplishing that. And then, obviously, if you're already kind of doing loose form, you're probably doing cheat rows when, like, the shortened portion is fatigued and you're still sweeping the lengthened. The issue with this is that it's just very hard to compare what is actual progress and then also, it can probably in some circumstances just involve a little bit more risk.
Speaker 2:So what I was doing was more so like the more sophisticated version of that with these new strategies. So, yeah, things kind of come full circle as they do many times. You go back and you're like man, I was doing some stuff right before. I couldn't explain to you when I was much younger why cheaty rows work. They just I saw them work once I started to employ them. But then, like once I got eyes on me'm like, shoot, I better start using like good form in the gym, because now I have kids watching how I live. So it's like, okay, now I'm squeezing, oh, if I can't squeeze and retract all the way back, we've hit failure, when technically you haven't.
Speaker 3:That's like rpe six, yeah um, actually, no question, I was actually in your training group. Uh, in your, yeah, in the training group for heroic training um and like some of the training techniques that you used there. I I love them, like the I think it was like the reverse drop set and like the length and partials. It was very cool to see how you programmed in there um, especially for like back development and even with like the pressing as well, like I um was changing because I used to press with.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my chest like super up, uh, shoulder blades really retracted kind of more like the mike israel tell kind of way my chest just never developed well, and then I started to kind of flatten the back a bit more and, yeah, allow more scapular movement and yeah, it just feels so much more natural, so like, yeah, thanks. Thanks for showing me that. Question two, when it comes to your nutrition, um, this last kind of phase in your off season, compared to like before, was there anything specifically that you change around this time, or were everything pretty similar in terms of the rate of gaining or how much protein or what your macros were looking like?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah, um, on that note the pressing stuff before I get into the nutrition um, like what? Another thing that like it really sealed the deal for me, like my buddy, bryce lewis we live in the same town. Uh, for those of you guys who are not familiar with bryce lewis, world champion power lif, like dudes benched over 500, naturally, like squats over seven, deadlifts over eight, really strong dude. And I just remember seeing him bench at some point and you know he was like the whole powerlifting world especially really cues in and then there might be benefits for them, like keep those shoulder blades back, but he wasn't doing that. Like he was not doing that. Like he he would just grab it and then just press it and I'm like, but you're not doing that.
Speaker 2:And I literally took the, the messaging, the dogma to heart because, you know, I I think in general, like bodybuilders have a little bit more, uh, better cueing when it comes to like what's taking place in the back and, unlike a lot of these power lifters, I literally kept my like scapula pinned throughout the whole range of motion, like as far back as I could. So, yeah, much like you, I was just like man. This just feels like, again, I'm not using my frontal lobes. At a certain point, you know, once I learned the movement, it's's just go, go, go. So in my shoulders I have not like felt this good in like 15 years, basically so. But but yet nutritionally not not a whole lot changes, I think. And it shouldn't this way, because at the end, when it comes to nutrition, it's just so straightforward. It's like it's the training and finding better strategies there that's most likely your bottleneck, whereas with the nutrition it's just like eat a high enough protein diet, eat enough calories, and for the most part, that along with some good food variety, especially whole foods, you're kind of set Like that can just kind of just float around in the background.
Speaker 2:I think that the biggest difference is that I just didn't see as many weigh-ins north of 180. This this go around compared to previous off seasons, and a lot of that is just the roi is just not worth it at this point. It's like why gain 30 pounds to maybe gain a pound of muscle? It just doesn't sound very, very wise. And I do think, so long as you are at a healthy body fat, the power of the recomp is underappreciated. But here's the key it's like what a healthy body fat is. For you. It might not be what you like, necessarily right. It doesn't mean abs for everyone. So for me that happens to be somewhere around 170, 175.
Speaker 2:Like I'm there, if I'm there, I'm metabolically flexible. Like my body has an easy time using both exogenous and endogenous fuel to like power me. And evidence of this is like if my late is is if my meal is kind of backed up and I'm late on the feeding, I don't really feel it, whereas right now in prep, if I cook too long without eating, I'm not metabolically flexible. My body would much rather not use this certain ratio of endogenous to exogenous fuel. I'm not at a good place to re-comp right now.
Speaker 2:So I think people undervalue that, especially once you've gotten, I'd say even the majority of your intermediate muscle out of the way.
Speaker 2:That doesn't mean I'm anti-gaining, anti-bulk, because realistically I think, especially for new lifters, they need this because it's going to keep your progressions at a faster rate so that you can remain engaged, whereas for me I'm much more patient.
Speaker 2:At this point I would much rather go from I don't know 173 to 174 average over the course of four months and see that my dumbbell press went up through four sets six total reps Because I'm like, okay, that's actual, probably contractile tissue or most of it anyways, whereas if I gain 10 pounds I'm like, okay, like it's kind of contaminated here the data is right.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think these days it's probably my best interest to just kind of stay leaner and tighter, especially as I have less muscle to gain as my off season habits improve. And it's kind of cool, you kind of look all right most of the year. And here's one thing I think a lot of young bodybuilders like forget like your skin can only expand and shrink so many times and eventually you will see it and shrink so many times and eventually you will see it. Like the last two preps, first time I've ever had to wait on skin to tighten up, that just was not a thing uh, 15 years ago. So take care of your skin and don't make it work ot for two pounds of muscle didn't you like?
Speaker 3:this was probably way back, but uh didn't you? Get up to like 250 or something in one of your off-seasons when you were younger, or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think my first true gaining phase when I said you know what? I'm just going to do this bodybuilding thing, and I came from an era where anything was possible as a natural athlete which, you know, there's some toxic elements to that but at the same time it uh also just just kept you ambitious, wide-eyed and hopeful and uh, I I wouldn't ask a lot of like kids my age or people at the gym my age about their use of steroids, so whenever I would see them like make progress and so and so gained 30 pounds like these last six months, it's like I gotta, gotta keep up with these folks. So it became that kind of game and um, yeah, I got it all the way up to the point where I had one weigh-in at 250, fully clothed, at the end of the day. Realistically, when you're that big, my dry scale weight was probably upper 230s, uh, but nevertheless I I learned the hard way that that was just a lot of wasted time.
Speaker 2:Because when I came back down to a reasonable weight, I remember hitting prs like I hit an all-time squat pr at the end of the cut and I'm like, uh, okay, that was dead weight. I probably didn't need to do that. But it was a very fun body and I was young. I probably, like I said, I needed that the power of the dreamer bulk maybe one could argue to just remain engaged because things were just moving. If I wanted to move it, I could move it. First time I saw 160 pound dumbbells because my gym didn't have access to those. I remember just clobbering those for like six to eight reps like no issue. So it was a fun body, just not very useful for, I guess, what would end up being my long-term goals that makes sense did you ever get any loose skin from getting up there, or were you pretty lucky coming back then.
Speaker 2:I know this is where I really just I'm like people would like just take this into consideration at a certain point, uh, because I didn't. I have like thankfully like really good skin and I don't necessarily appreciate it. Like so now that I'm in my 40s, uh, so like I managed to get away with that, but like even now it's like, oh shoot, I can see like the off-season like little, like wrinkle here and just as of like the last month or so, it's finally kind of heightened up. But like the ab thigh for a minute there was, I'm like, oh wow, that's, that's different. You do any like skincare routines.
Speaker 2:My wife tries to get me on them, but I just I can't adhere. She's like, do the retinol, the vitamin c, and I'm just like this will protect me from sun damage, right, but uh, but no, no. I mean I try to wear sunscreen, like, especially like during the summer, but other than that, uh, no, no. But yeah, take care of your skin. It's just, it's it's. It's it's important. Like you know, eddie, who just competed, like the other day, uh, the washington show, he won it. We don't think about this, but he's got just tremendous skin. It's so tight, smooth and it can really lend to a better look, I feel.
Speaker 3:A question I had for you too is because I've thought about trying it because I've seen you do it a couple. I think this will be your second prep where you intuitively kind of eight like you in terms of, like the full prep, um, I believe, based off like your youtube um, how long do you think you would have to prep, like using tracking macros, to like how many preps would you need to be under your belt to be able to do it? Intuitively, would you say?
Speaker 2:you know, I think it just it takes practice, and a little aha moments come from, like maybe you're deep into a gaining phase, you know, and you're heavier and you're like, do I really need to be tracking this? Yeah, right, it's like, no, I can make you know 3 800 to 4 000 calories, like happen, I kind of eat the same thing all the time, um, and then eventually, uh, it just it goes from one step to the next. It's like, okay, maybe you're practicing that at a, uh, leaner body weight, you know, during some other gaining phase. And then eventually, uh, you do it on a cut right, and maybe it's just the first three, four weeks of a cut, uh, or like, for me, the way it would work out is like how I kind of came to this epiphany. I would just start cuts that way because I'm like I know what I gotta do. I'm so resistant to muscle loss at this point, like, literally, just when it's a good day to go hard, go hard when you need to back off, because you're showing all the symptoms that you need to back off, just just do that.
Speaker 2:And then eventually, I did start a prep and I'm like, all right, here are my numbers, I'm going to track this and I'm like this feels like busy work at this point and I just noticed that the numbers weren't very all terrain, like I couldn't make audibles and calls like you know, like if I went on a hike that day but I was extra sedentary and not hungry, um, so it just kind of crept from there and then eventually, you know, I was like you know what I'll track if I have to, if I just feel like I'm getting in my own way and that just that just never came. I feel like it's you know, it's like there's this trail that you've always done, right, this hike. It's like you probably don't need to bust out the map to to make it there. You just kind of know what you should be doing, what things should feel like uh. So at this point I think tracking would be a step back because I can't be as dynamic as I like to be.
Speaker 2:We all do it in the weight room, right? If that rdo feels like it's going to smash you today and something bad can happen, you'll probably alter it and it's no different, like on this side, and I think just people have a hard time doing that with nutrition for some reason. But there's many clues for a lot of folks. At the very least, you're ready to try a fat loss phase where it's kind of auto-regulated Gotcha. No, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:Do you do that for your peaking as well? Is it more so intuitive when it comes to that? And I would just kind of give it a few flexes here and there and I'm like, okay, yeah, full, but I can tell there's like some leakage of carbs. So okay, maybe pull it back, or okay, maybe they don't feel the way they should, but I don't. I'd rather not even look at myself. I just literally don't disrobe until the night before, so I can make you know don't disrobe until the night before, so I can make you know mostly hydration and and and mineral adjustments that night or, or the the morning after gotcha.
Speaker 3:That's very cool, like I feel like for me, like I, I feel like I would stress out doing that, but it's probably like a de-stressing almost in a sense, because there's not so many like variables, you're not constantly obsessing over your physique, so it probably just helps keep the cortisol nice and low yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it's how you know how it goes, man.
Speaker 2:You, you can think four different things about your physique and like one day when, when you are prepping right entering a peak week, that can lead to a lot of wrong moves, but that one I don't know that I could recommend for for people, because that one, I will admit, is kind of weird and eccentric. Do you do more?
Speaker 3:of a front load when you peak, or is it more of a mid load or back load kind of thing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess you would call it a front load, but you know a lot of that is like how in front does it have to be? Is how quickly you assimilate the carbohydrate and then how quickly you clean it up. Because I do think at some point if you want to be full you have to have spilled over, and most bodybuilders won't play with that during a peak week, but it's like no, it cures quite easily. Bodybuilders have probably seen this in themselves all the time. It's like they kind of overeat after a show and then they're like, oh, shoot, like I've, I've kind of messed this up. A few days go by and they're like, oh, I, this is like the right combo of like tight, but I still have that fullness of the night after where I had a little bit too much fro yo or or whatever. Uh, so, so yeah, I, I'd rather have them in the front, because I could make a lot more adjustments, as opposed to have them in the back end. And you're kind of screwed at that point if you miscalculated something makes sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I tried the cliff wilson's rapid backload, the um, this past season and like I practiced it and it went well when I practiced it. But then the actual peak week itself, like I did everything, this actually woke up and was flat. I was like what's going on? So, like I found, yeah it was, it was definitely a very stressful. Uh, peak was just trying to load it in that one day and, like I think you mentioned when you're supposed to, like it takes like 48 hours a lot of times to get all that glycogen stored.
Speaker 3:So I was like, okay, yeah, that's. And then, like the next one, we did it more like three days out and kind of did a moderate and then higher and then brought it back down and it worked out a lot better that way. So yeah, no, that that makes a lot of sense yeah, and cliff has great success with it.
Speaker 2:So it's one of those things where I've never played with it. Uh, his guys look great, uh. So it's one of those where kind of like for like the back training, like I've gone to go see the sensei for that, you know, since they cast him and I think the same thing with that it's like you're probably better off, like you know, doing it with the assistance of cliff for anyone interested out there and uh, and quite often from from what I understand, he will tell people. It's like yeah, you're just not a candidate for this.
Speaker 3:Like this is this doesn't look good on you and I'm I feel like I'm quite anxiety prone, so I feel like there's a stress of having that on the one day I was like okay that's. That's probably another thing that kind of threw me off. So, yeah, no, I agree with you. Yeah, it'd probably be best. I'm gonna take that approach get it from the master, like, make sure he's like yeah, rather than just trying to do it myself. So, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Um did you have a question there, adrian no, it was something I wanted to add, uh, previously, but we're way past that now. Yeah, so we get, we get, we can move on to on. So we've talked about some of your peaking protocols, but now this is only an intuitive. It's really good information for, I think, would say, intermediate to advanced bodybuilders who's been, who's been doing this for quite a while. And, as you said, there is this aha movement that all of a sudden you're like, okay, I've been doing this for so long.
Speaker 1:I could go with my gut and just feel it out and understand what the physique actually looks like. But there's a transition to that and I would say when is it a good time? I think Brandon was the question. What would you say is a good timeline when? I think I think the brandon was the question but what would you say is a good timeline from an intermediate to advanced, like in this little uh time frame where it's like I'm kind of I kind of get it, but I kind of don't, so that that kind of space, what would you say that they do then?
Speaker 2:when it comes to more, um, I guess an auto, an auto regulated approach to nutrition, yeah. So, for example, like macro counting, I mean some people just enjoy it, they find a lot of fulfillment in that. I think that is a course that you take for three to four months or whatever. Like some people get the point a lot sooner, some people might take a little bit longer and it's like, oh, I understand now I view food very differently compared to what I did prior to taking that course. And and then from there, I think, like I came in my prep athletes, I don't have them on macros, I have them on calories and protein. I got it, that's it, and I think there's a lot of benefit to that. So, slowly, what I start doing is I give them more autonomy over their situation, so it's like the caloric ranges can broaden up right before that we're only doing calories and protein, right? Um?
Speaker 2:So, and I think for someone who is like self-coached, probably the best way to go about this is to constantly challenge yourself to how can I up my game to be what is truly flexible, truly pliable? Cause things that are not flexible and pliable, they, they, they snap, they break right. Those are classically, actually the folks who don't do as well during peak week because things have to be dynamic. That makes them feel a certain way. Or maybe things don't do as well during peak week because things have to be dynamic. That makes them feel a certain way, or maybe things don't go according to plan and it's it's. It's that plus the reaction to it, uh. But I think, generally speaking, you should just how you view like prs in the gym, when it comes to certain behavioral stuff outside of the gym, the recovery side, the nutrition side, like work to challenge yourself there, to to just just make, give yourself a more, uh, well-rounded game. But, um, yeah, I mean like, for example, like, uh, american football, right, like the quarterback is the person who's kind of, uh, you know, the general on the field, and it would be very limiting to have a quarterback who would say, okay, this is a play, but shoot, based on what the defense is showing us, this play is just going to get swallowed up. I would much rather maybe we start that way, where it's like we just kind of run what's most likely to work in most scenarios. But I also at some point want them to be empowered with the ability to make decisions like on the fly. It's like, okay, that plan is good, but I got another play that I think can work, based on like what I think I'm seeing here.
Speaker 2:Um, but a lot of that is just like all wisdom really is. Is is just pattern recognition, and that's one thing that even people who aren't super good at that naturally I cliff's really good at that, at pattern recognition He'll tell you that's one of his greatest skill sets as a coach you can develop that thing so well and you're able to just catch things Like oh, I've seen this before. I've been here before. I've taken a rep when I shouldn't have taken a rep. My hip felt just like this, I should just leave it here. So, um, so yeah, no, I think over time you just want to challenge yourself more when it comes to being able to trust, I guess, your gut feeling and build a certain level of autonomy. Otherwise, you're just going to be kind of bottlenecked as an athlete okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Now, speaking on the topic on uh you working with uh athletes, are there any like non-negotiable circumstances with every single of your athletes?
Speaker 2:probably the first thing, just like level one intervention, is like you have to be ready for remote coaching, you know, because you know we talked about this off air. You know, not everyone we work with is like on the hunt for that pro card, right? Um, so there's certain people that you just have to turn down. You're like you know what. What you need more than anything is just like you need to go see a personal trainer, you know, because there's there's just so many prerequisites that you need to fulfill before I can do anything that's actually going to be worth it for you via this format.
Speaker 2:And it's crazy because, like sometimes, like online coaching is like God, that's kind of steep. But it's like, oh, personal training is a little bit more expensive even, you know, but like, literally, that's probably where they're better off investing their, their, their money. And then the second thing is just like being open to it, being in like educational process as well as a coaching process, like, eventually, you know, with like my best athletes, the way it works is I'm just kind of here to protect them from themselves. They have a lot of input and I'm just here to keep them objective. That's the ultimate goal with everyone, essentially. So I want them to not just be here for the results or to accomplish that first batch of goals, but to be a lifelong learner and and you know maybe change the way they think in such a way that it expands into, you know, other, arguably more important parts of their life yeah, this kind of a side question.
Speaker 3:But when it comes to training, like because I know there's a lot of people that go for like the sensation when they're training, that kind of go more for that pump or that disruption, and some people are all on the side of like just progressive overload, um, where would you kind of rank yourself when you're, when you're doing exercising? How important is it to you that, like you're getting some sort of sensation from that exercise to the target tissue? Um, and then how important would you weigh, like being able to progressively overload it?
Speaker 2:yeah, you know, I think as you get bigger and stronger, um and competent, and movements like these sensations can matter less, um, and this is just because I mean I'm assuming we've all been under a heavy squat at some point. Do you feel your legs? No, you just feel like you're getting crushed right. But if you look at the joints that are moving, it's very easy to tell like which ones are the prime movers? What's being biased on this person in this particular squat? Being biased on this person in this particular squat? So the example I like to give people because there's a first one is going to be just like have you ever seen those pictures of like those Jack sprinters or football players, like head on, and they're just doing this and all the muscles are bursting everywhere? Go ask that fellow if he fell at his chest, you know. And no, no, he didn't. He was busy moving, he was busy in this fight or flight sort of situation.
Speaker 2:Getting back to the brain dominant stuff. So I think that, along with the fact that sometimes what people will do is it's the co -contractors that they feel and it's not necessarily the actual muscle, when you're kind of using the co-contractors in what I think is an inappropriate way, you're actually kind of muffling your ability to generate actual tension through the desired muscle group. So a great example of this, like a parallel I like to draw for people, is how would I grow more? And for those of you on YouTube you'll be able to see this I'm just kind of flexing my arm. If I was in one scenario just kind of flexing my arm like this with, you know, just resistance I created, or if I put my hand on my wrist and was doing this the first one I can feel a whole lot more like mind muscle connection. But I would bank on the latter one that probably me resisting with my own hand is going to probably generate more mechanical tension in the bicep, like for this example.
Speaker 2:So that's one thing that people feel is just the co-contractors and it's not necessarily that. And then the other thing is sometimes what they feel is like their body kind of being out of alignment and their body is kind of telling them like yo, like, like, fix this, but they confuse it with a sensation that is productive. Example for this one is going to be like okay, like if I were to try to just squeeze, like my hand, as much as I could wrist straight. I don't get a whole lot of sensation Now if I cock my wrist back and try to squeeze. Oh shoot, there's that mind muscle connection. You like, bro, fix your squat stance Like you're too wide, you're too narrow. This is not a good position to be in.
Speaker 2:So I think it's overblown, and the longer you do it, the more the less you're going to feel because you're able to let go of inhibition and basically all you're trying to do is not get crushed. By the way. It's a fight or flight moment and I mean, think about it, you can't pinch yourself on two sides, or you can pinch yourself on two sides but you only feel one side at a certain point, once your body's kind of let go and it feels like free and safe to exert itself, I guess focused on moving and not necessarily like the pain and discomfort or whatever you might be feeling in that area. So yeah, I think it's vastly overblown. I think with the more practical rep ranges you're not going to get a whole lot of that Bernie feeling, and I do think it's something that's very well borrowed from the more enhanced side of things, where they'll tell you that anecdotally that one of the first things they notice when they go from natural to using is that you, you, you can't actually feel contractions. It's like that muscle is like souped up and you're like, oh my God, like that feels different. But also in their case a lot of those compounds aren't very tissue selective or as tissue selective as we would like, right.
Speaker 2:So the pumpy work for them might actually have some benefits because it might kind of redirect that stuff to the tissue that they want to grow, to grow um, and finally, uh yeah, the the the longer you do this, the the faster you get, the better you get at using those energy systems.
Speaker 2:Like I never feel my muscles burn, like I don't unless I'm doing some outrageous rep range, like it just doesn't happen. And I remember when I first started lifting, like just holding dumbbells for a curl, I just remember all this here was just like ow, tense and crampy. So as you build up your bodybuilding conditioning in the training sense, you'll see that your body is very efficient at producing and working within the energy systems that most of your work is going to be under the umbrella of. If there is one bro-y thing that I think can be a little bit more subjective, that I think is valuable. I do think the pump is valuable, and not necessarily that. I don't believe that it means good signaling is taking place at not the way that people think, but it just definitely means hey, like you're training that muscle group, like what you're trying to bias is what is is working here.
Speaker 3:So you know the mind muscle connection maybe after the set matters a little more gotcha, that makes sense yeah, because I that's all I usually think about is like when I finish a set like, do do I feel like that target tissue being kind of like inflamed or like having like more blood flow there and stuff like that. But no, that makes a lot of sense there. Do you have anything Adrian?
Speaker 1:Not from the training side? Yeah, because he's pumped up a lot of training. Good info out there. But I actually do want to just expand a little bit on just my own curious question. So, as you said, maybe I'm interpreting this wrong is, if we're not actually 100% looking for the pump in a training and we're not necessarily looking for that peak contraction in some muscles, what would you say the fatigue level would be after the workout? Because I know many, many individuals will find like, okay, I'm finding this very big pump, uh, in my chest or in my delts and it's absolutely spent. I can't even lift my arm up. That's how they identify okay, this is a good volume or this is I'm like to that fatigue level and I'm good, yeah, so how would you identify that space is a good level of volume and I'm done like that is not fatigue?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, again, the pump does have some merit, like if you're on the leg press and your lower back is pumped, is there, like quads does have some merit like if you're on the leg press and your lower back is as pumped as your quads, like, okay, like you know, maybe something needs to be adjusted. Um, and peak contraction is not necessarily a terrible thing, it's just there's, it's probably a good thing. But for movements that bias, that part of the strength curve, right, right. So you know, if I'm doing a, basically a squat pattern compared to most leg extensions, right, like, one is going to be the, the, the, the. The peak of the strength curve is going to be for what we want, it's going to be at the top. So at that point I do think a the peak contraction matters, but I don't think it matters a whole lot on the squat pattern, as your joints restack at the top, like squeeze your leg against gravity, right. So you this is where, again, like learning like, don't just own the card, it's like read the manual, you know like, understand, like their function of the muscles, understand strength curves, and if you just do that, like that's gonna help you out much. And it's actually one of those things that, once you get people thinking that way like man, it's like a never ending fun. In regards to things that you can nerd out on, I think the biggest way to determine whether or not that movement is serving you in the short term is to again understand the function of that muscle and see if that function is being performed in that movement. So you got to record yourself, record your lifts Like I have so much more training footage on my phone than I have like physique selfies, even when I'm prepping, because it's like that important, like if something feels off, roll that tape. I need to, I need to, I need to fix something right now. So that's probably proprioception combined with a device so that you can record yourself, probably things that should be in a gym bag and that you should prioritize.
Speaker 2:If you're very serious about this, um, when it comes to like how fatigued you should feel after training man, that's that's hard to say I think you have to look at the bookkeeping and see if you're progressing right. That's probably a good sign that you're doing enough to elicit the response you want. But I think what works even better is, when it comes to how you're feeling, is looking at how motivated you feel going into sessions. So not necessarily how drained you are after, because you could be drained, but by the time your next training session comes around you're ready to go, especially for people who are quite committed. This is the thing that I would use as a good way to detect how well you're recovering.
Speaker 2:I mean, think about a contest prep, where it's the closest thing that we go through as bodybuilders. That kind of falls under the umbrella of classical overtraining, you know per the books, where it takes months to recover. In many cases that's that's overtraining. It's very different from a leg day they gave you doms cases. That's overtraining. It's very different from a leg day that gave you DOMS. That's not overtraining. And when you are in a prep it's like, as much as you love training, your motivation is not the same. You don't have the same tiger in you when you go in there, right? So I'd probably look at the front end for clues. Am I pretty motivated and ready to do some work at the start of most sessions? That's probably a better proxy to like am I doing too much or doing too little? Or can I explore doing more? Because you know I feel this way or I feel like just emptied. So much better. Proxy pre-training, like how are you feeling? So much better. Proxy pre-training, like how are you feeling?
Speaker 1:Makes sense. Yeah, so I know you probably talked about this before on another podcast, but if you speak on the, on the topic of what does recovery actually look like for you now, like has it been? Has it changed from sleep or mobility work on rest days like today?
Speaker 2:And those, any regeneration strategies? Man, let's see. So I don't play with a whole lot of funky stuff. I think probably the biggest thing is how you frame stress, whether it's your real life or the gym. There's less to be learned in both arenas.
Speaker 2:A lot of those guys who, like keefie west, comes to my man like I love watching that that kid train, because I he's never worried about, like, am I overly fatigued? Am I doing too much? You know, I I key frame stress in a very positive way that this shit's fucking hard, it's gonna drill me but it's gonna make me more resistant. And I think the same thing can be taken to because outside the life, stress impacts your training, especially if it's there chronically, like if you're going through a hard stint at work. It's like it's one of those things where you got a frame, where it's like man, you know shit is fucked right now, but if I'm going to try to thrive under this environment because if I do that, I will be able to look back at this have all these new skills, have all this new level of tolerance, but within a reasonable amount, of course. You know it's like sometimes a solution is like yeah, maybe you need a new job. But, yeah, I think stress and how you frame it is super, super important. So you can think about a lot of the guys that are killing in the gym. They just kind of have that dumb jock syndrome. It's like, bro, you just did a widow maker on the hack squats, like aren't you worried? And they're like nah, I got was fun, I'm excited to go do some more and eat meat later. You know, like no worries, they frame it in a very positive way, right, whereas, like when you've seen athletes who they have no athletic background, they want to get into this and it's trying to convince them that, like, this is safe, this is good. Your body's an adaptive machine. You can probably do more than you think.
Speaker 2:So, stress management, stress framing or stress manage, stress framing is just as important as, like, stress management, I think, um, but outside of that, sleep, super important, especially during contest prep. Uh, I literally, a few weeks ago, lowered my caffeine to nothing just because I realized how slow I metabolize it. Um, and I just learned this, not by taking some tests, just literally stopped it and I'm like, oh, my god, like I have, out of the time spent in bed, like 10 minutes where I'm awake per the. The device and a lot of these devices aren't very not, they're not as good as people think, but they are good at picking up, like when you wake up and I'm like 10 minutes, like for six hours, like that's cool because I only got six hours but my sleep score was really good compared to like when I got seven and some change. But 90 minutes of that was like disruption. Uh, there's caffeine half. There's a caffeine half-life calculator. If you were to plug in your caffeine intake and put it on there, like most people will see that man, it doesn't turn into zero until 30-something hours, 40-something hours deep into it and I probably not only metabolize caffeine slower than others, but the threshold for what it takes for it to disrupt my sleep is probably pretty low. I could probably have 30 AMGs in my system pre-bed and that's enough to like disrupt my sleeping patterns. So, uh, cutting out caffeine is probably something I'm gonna try to do as much as possible, outside of maybe having a social coffee. Uh, like it's alcohol or something here and there.
Speaker 2:Um, uh, so sleep, uh, super important outside of that. Uh, just, I think by the first form of auto regulation you should learn when it comes to your training is like when should you go in, when should you not? Uh, so I've I, I play that game a lot and that's why, for me, like four days of training it's really good, because I have more roaming off days so that I can charge up even more if I feel like I need to. My buddy cast and his quote it really speaks to what you're trying to do here. It's like bodybuilding is the sport of over-recovering, whereas a lot of sports, during their busiest times, it's just the sport of getting back up to baseline so that you can play your next basketball game. In our case, we want to be over recovered. So, um, so those three along with um, but just learning to not think about bodybuilding all the time I think is is is huge yeah, makes sense.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, uh, with the competing too. Um, I was curious too with where you've competed in the past. Like, have you pretty well just competed in, uh, the states and canada?
Speaker 2:or have you ever competed in europe or anywhere out there no, that ambf show is gonna be my first, you know, uh, like european show. So I'm a little brokenhearted about that one. But like, that was my thing, starting that, starting in 22. I'm like, oh, you know what, I'm gonna try to do one international show like every year, especially now that, um, the, the wnbf, where I primarily what I primarily focus on, has a lot of good like international shows. I'd argue that their pro shows are probably better overseas. So I'm like, wow, I can. There's a whole bunch of shows in asia. There's, oh, but there's, you know the one in dub. Whole bunch of shows in Asia. There's a whole bunch. There's, you know the one in Dubai. So so, yeah, that's something I want to start doing a little bit more of, just because you kind of get to combine your training with, or your bodybuilding with, some traveling and seeing the world's probably been one of the greatest gifts bodybuilding has given me and it's it's incredibly like and americans aren't very well known for for traveling.
Speaker 3:That's, that's awesome. Do you think you'll come back up to canada for the wmbf cabri show one of these years too, or?
Speaker 2:wouldn't be surprised, because you know it's. It's like canada is like our cousins right and with a baby, like it's like, oh shoot, you know, canada is like quite safe, quite calm, like I realize how calm it is because I live in colorado. Things are super calm here. Like drivers are almost, if anything, too passive and uh, I remember just like going down the freeway and I'm like man, I am like passing everyone up and uh, and then I, I, I did the conversion. I'm like okay, I'm not going that fast and the speed limit says only that fast. And and, oh my god, I must seem like a lunatic right now and I, I mellowed it out, but uh, but yeah, safe place, you know, because I'd probably take my, my wife and and and daughter with me. You know Banff is like right there too, and you know she'd get a kick out of that. So, yeah, that show was overall a great experience. The people were amazing and it's just a beautiful part of the country.
Speaker 3:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Now we want to just get a little bit. I actually do have just some other other side questions on basically your like, beyond bodybuilding, just probably your life, because now, yeah, your father, now, uh, there's just more to bodybuilding in in your life. So just wanted to ask just dig a little bit on your, your philosophy. Now you're still a young guy and you're still just only in your 40s, only in your 40s only. Um, I'm up there, I'm up there as well. Like, what legacy do you hope to to leave in bodybuilding or coaching?
Speaker 2:um, you know, eventually all your work is going to kind of be like stomped on and, like you, just be part of the rubble, right, like no one will really like like there is I don't know things that uh, louis pastor did, that like we're benefiting from today, that uh, no one cares about. You know, um, and the same thing with like, uh, like, even like within the sport, you know, like, like we are where we are at today because a lot of guys did the leg work, you know like they competed in the 2000s, they did it in 1990, this natural bodybuilding thing, when it was weird and super eccentric, and like why, you know, I think they all set up the groundwork for us to have what we have today. Uh, but no one even thinks about it. We just kind of like just dance on top of the rubble, essentially.
Speaker 2:So I guess I don't really care, because there's probably somewhere around, somewhere in my lineage I don't know, an ancestor that was fighting with a small bear and lost his hand and fought an infection and lived long enough to procreate. And here I am and like I don't care, I don't know, you know. So people won't won't know. Uh, I just hope that I can contribute enough so that when the baton is passed, like that next set of uh of people like just help move it forward in the same way and the cycle continues.
Speaker 2:So so yeah, eventually, especially as the gene pool grows and I look forward to this my pictures will be like God he looked like I don't know. It's like when you see NBA guys from the 60s dribble. It's like they're all dribbling upright and they're all slow. It's black and white underhand shots and you compare it to the modern game. Like eventually my bodybuilding is going to be that and eventually, whatever I contributed in regards to like strategies, uh, they'll become maybe some of them are right such standard practice that no one even thinks about like hey, someone had to kind of like clue us in to at least head in this general direction. So, um, so yeah, it's just it'll be what it is, but I'm not too concerned about that I feel like you guys have already attributed so much to the space.
Speaker 3:Like I remember when I just got into it too and when I was started competing back in 2014, and then I started looking at, like lane orton and you guys yourself, I think I first looked at matt ogis and then he was trained by eric helms, and then I started looking at, like Lane Norton and you guys yourself, I think I first looked at Matt Ogis and then he was trained by Eric Helms, and then I started looking at Eric Helms and then I started looking at you guys and stuff, and then just from there, just yeah, the amount of knowledge that you guys have pumped out over the past. I guess Did you guys start up in 2010 or 2009,? The Team 3MG.
Speaker 2:At that time whoa, you are a lifer dude. If you remember matt august, like I can't even uh, like get the in. Like I felt like matt august was like post this other golden era of uh history. Like these kids, like you, don't know what came before, right, uh so, but nevertheless, like these kids don't even know about matt these days, almost it seems like you know, like, like all the people who follow matt, they're, like, you know, in their 30s, their dads. It's just things have changed.
Speaker 3:But uh, yeah, 2009 is about when we started really getting the the wheels rolling with this thing yeah, that makes a lot of sense because, yeah, because I wouldn't be where I am today without like seeing your head, this stuff, because, like the way I was going about it back then was, yeah, like meal plans, like soup, eating the exact same everything, the exact same thing every day, like just tons of wine, and just it was not the best approach or a sustainable approach. So, yeah, like I'm very thankful for what you guys have been able to do yeah, no, thank you man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's crazy. It's been a minute now, man. I I can't wait till we I don't know officially hit that 20 year mark of doing this thing. Because I think that matters in the fitness industry because, you know, people come and go. You know, like, speaking of, like folks that people don't really remember or know of, it's like a lot of these young kids don't know who christian guzman is, it's like what At a certain point, like he was. You know, I think he got the million subscribers on YouTube right and like just kind of, again the rubble, like the fitness industry has a way of just making people like go on the witness protection program, it seems.
Speaker 1:Any further questions that you wanted to ask him on again uh, I think that's everything again.
Speaker 3:I just appreciate you, uh, taking the time out of your day to hop on here, um, and just yeah, supply us with a bunch of your wisdom yeah um yeah, just final thing, any final thoughts or any final words of wisdom for our listeners um?
Speaker 2:yeah, just, I guess the first of all like, especially for people who are new to this, it's like get yourself a mentor. Uh, I think that that is I leave. Like my first mentor was this personal trainer when I was 16. Yeah, and obviously you outgrow your mentors, but I think you should always like have one in some area, like all the time, like you know, like cast them, like if I have any questions when it comes to biomechanics or something, it's like, fuck, I got that guy right there, you know. So have a mentor, I think, at all times. I think that's that's super, super important and it could be relevant to what you're doing or just like your overall, like life mission. I think that is like that's one thing.
Speaker 2:You'll see that a lot of successful people in any endeavor share is like they wasn't just them. They usually had these trustees of people that they could go to with things. So, yeah, bodybuilding, find yourself yourself some mentors. Best way to get a mentor, I will say this, is you'd be surprised how like not resourceful people are these days. Like folks, will I?
Speaker 2:I forget it about, I forget to do this sometimes and I'll I'll like I use the happy scale app to track my weigh-ins and someone will ask me, like what is the app? You know? And not that I'm all that, it's like. I'm like maybe not the old man on a mountain, but like the old man on the hill right and I'm like you come to me to ask me what is the app? You know, it's like in my shoes.
Speaker 2:This is how I did it and this is how I leveraged a lot of good minds is, by the time I got to someone with a question, they could tell that I had put in all this legwork on the front end and I was stuck for a reason and you know they knew the answer or you know close to it, but they saw that oh shoot, I can see why this kid is stuck and what. Because it's so uncommon. What you see is that, like, these people will literally give you like so much time because they're used to things like what app is that? And like in my head, I'm like, you know, in my, your shoes, I would literally just have taken a screenshot, reverse, search the image, boom. You know. So you'd be surprised how many good mentors, like people who are like way up there you can have, invest time in you if they see you're putting in the effort, that you're genuinely curious and and you, you really want to learn, because they've probably been in your shoes before and that's why they are who they are right now.
Speaker 1:Great yeah, that's really really good advice. So, for all of you listeners, we will link all of Alberta's information down below. Besides Instagram, is there anywhere else we could find you?
Speaker 2:No, not really. I mean YouTube. We do a little some there, but that's a slow mover. But yeah, instagram is probably where you can find not just me but the rest of the other coaches and all the information we try to put out consistently.
Speaker 1:Great. Thank you so much again, Alberto, for your time here. We'll link everything down below. Until then, we'll see you guys next time. Yes.