Lifting Nerds
Adrian Ma and Brandon Emslie share discussions and interviews with the fitness community's best science-based researchers and coaches.
Lifting Nerds
S3E15: When You Chase Striations for 11 Months feat Sam Kaplan
Sam Kaplan shares his journey as a natural bodybuilder who has competed in seven shows and is currently preparing for his fifth competition season. He offers insights from years of experience that have shaped his approach to training, nutrition, and the mental challenges of bodybuilding preparation.
• Started lifting at age 12 in his uncle's home gym with basic equipment
• Won his first bodybuilding competition despite having no expectations or prior experience
• Evolved from fighting hunger during prep to embracing it as part of the process
• Reduced training frequency from seven days to four days per week for better results
• Discovered that post-show recovery can take up to six months for appetite and psychology to normalize
• Planning a longer, less invasive prep approach for the upcoming season with a maintenance phase
• Focusing on improving weak areas including traps, delts, and conditioning in specific body parts
• Will compete in WNBF Vancouver and WNBF Kelowna in the bodybuilding division
If there's something that you want to work towards, then why not work towards it?
Instagram: @jadeathletics
Youtube: @samuel.n.kaplan
IG: @liftingnerds
Youtube: liftingnerds
Host
@_adrianma
@brandonemslie
uh, yeah, we haven't done the intros for quite a while and I think it's uh, it's we get more information and just skipping all the intro stuff. Yeah, but uh, here we are, uh, we, we have sam on the podcast with us for, uh, all those listeners and, uh, if you guys don't know, sam is, uh is, an absolutely amazing guy. So, but I'm not, I'm not going to ruin it for all the listeners, I'm just going to let uh sam, you, uh, you have the floor. Uh, why don't you tell all our listeners and all our fans, or millions and millions of fans, to tell everybody who you are?
Speaker 2:well. Thank you, adrian and brandon Brandon for having me here. I'm really excited just to get to chat with you guys. I'm a natural bodybuilder. I've competed, I've done seven shows. I think I'm prepping. Right now. I'm in my fifth prep. It's a pre-prep phase, so, like the early stages of dieting, I'm also an online physique coach. I work mainly with mainstream lifestyle clients that want to lose fat and build muscle, and that's me. So I'm an online physique coach and I'm really passionate about natural bodybuilding physique coach and I'm really passionate about natural bodybuilding.
Speaker 3:That's awesome, man. I didn't realize you've done seven, shows man how many seasons in total.
Speaker 2:Have you done so far? I have. So this is my. This is my fifth prep, so I guess this is my fifth. It'll lead into my fifth season. My first three seasons were they're just like single show seasons. My fourth season, so my last one. I did four shows, so I knocked out I. I knocked out a bunch in a single prep yeah, that's awesome yeah, that was a. That was a long season for you.
Speaker 3:I remember following along with it and it just I was like, oh man, he's still going it was a marathon, yeah when, when did that one like originally, like when was your first show that season and then when was your last show? Like how many months were you actually like full, like in competition mode?
Speaker 2:geez. So the first show was the wmbf ontario, which I think was the date that I have in my head was september 9th 2023. I don't know that. That that date just sticks in my head. I think it was probably such a priority at that time frame that it's just like ingrained in my brain at this point, but I think it was september 9th 2023. The last show was like November, I want to say 17th or 18th, which was the. I competed in the amateur world. So it's like what is that? Like two, two and a half months. It was like 13 or 14 weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, good on you, man.
Speaker 3:I want to actually bring it back to like even before you started getting into the fitness, before you started getting into bodybuilding, because I loved, like for those of you guys listening, I was actually on Sam's podcast a couple of times he has a great podcast himself and I was just curious about your background because you dug into mine quite a bit. So I was just curious about what your lifestyle, what your life looked like before you started fitness, before you started bodybuilding um, like if I was like a fly on the wall, like what would a typical day look like for you, man?
Speaker 2:it would have. It would have looked like, uh, pre-teen kid stuff. So I started lifting when I was really really young. I think I was 12 when I started being really consistent about it. I was really lucky when I grew up, my uncle who lived very close to my family home. He had a decently equipped home gym more than enough equipment for a 12-year-old kid to dig into. So I started lifting when I was really really young and I got my first gym membership a few years later, when I was 15, I think. But yeah, I was pre-lifting era version of me, did kids stuff, hung out with friends, I guess. I guess I was into. I was taking piano lessons, I liked video games growing up like really liked video games, went to school and I lifted weights. Yeah, pretty, pretty early on. So I guess, yeah, I would have been just kid stuff more or less.
Speaker 3:Nice man. Yeah, that's super cool that you were getting into it when you mentioned around 12. So, yeah, no, that's awesome. I wish I would have personally gotten into it at that age I think I was 16, 17 or something like that when I fully got into it. But that's very cool. Was it like barbells or dumbbells? What was like the equipment that you had access to?
Speaker 2:They had a dumbbell rack. I think in hindsight it went to either 50 or 60 pounds, so not super heavy, but when you're 12 years old that's super, super heavy. So it was more weight than I could handle, that's for sure. So that was more than enough. They had a nice adjustable bench. They had an easy curl bar with like a preacher bench and they had a universal trainer which actually had pretty much everything you'd need outside of dumbbells. That had like a lat pull down attachment, different attachments for like cable bicep curls, bayesian curls, um. They had like a mid-level cable attachment. It had a chest press set up and overhead press set up. So it had basically everything that that I could have possibly needed. There's no barbell outside of the little easy easy curl bar, um, but with the cables on the on the universal gym or the universal trainer and the dumbbells, it was like everything I could have possibly needed.
Speaker 2:I wasn't good at lifting, I was horrible at it, I was like self-taught, like and in youtube wasn't a thing yet.
Speaker 2:So it was like really, really self-taught. I got a couple exercises from my dad here and there that and I just kind of like fault. They had like a diagram on the wall of like pictures of different exercises, like really old school, like imagine you're, you go to like a planet fitness or something like that, and on all of their pieces of equipment it has a diagram of how to do the exercise and it like highlights the muscles that you're supposed to be hitting. I remember they had like a big diagram on their wall that had a whole ton of different exercises that were illustrated with that kind of style of visual showing the exercise like what the movement roughly should look like, in one or two pictures with the muscle that's highlighted. So I kind of tried to copy that until a little bit later on, when I got my gym membership, which was I think I was 15. I was like in 10th grade, something like that, 9th or 10th grade, 10th grade I think.
Speaker 1:So what it was? Yeah, so how did you? So? You were sort of just working out at the at the home gym for quite a while before you got into an actual gym. So did you have any coaches along the way when you perhaps joined the membership, or was everything just just self-taught?
Speaker 2:it was. I never had a formal coach. I was mostly self-taught. However, I was pretty influenced by my dad, so he was a. He was a big like intrinsic motiv, I suppose. Or I think my intrinsic motivation probably developed from watching my dad as I grew up. He was like you know. He trained five days a week ever since I could remember. To me it's like you look up to your dad like he's a superhero. Basically, that was like how I looked up to him. He had big muscles. I used to like brag to my friends like my dad's got bigger arms than your dad basically. So he was a big motivational kind of an influence on me and he didn't help me a ton with the practical elements of lifting weights.
Speaker 2:When I got my gym membership, I trained at the same gym as him but he kind of did his thing and I went off and did my own thing. But there was a there's another guy that trained at that gym and I would get there really early. I'd probably arrive at like 6 am, which for a high school kid that didn't have to be there, it was pretty early. I was the only kid that was there and and the gym was like it's like a kind of hole in the wall like gritty bodybuilder gym in the industrial park in the small town that I grew up in. So it was a lot of like blue collar workers around, like the steel plant close by and and the other industrial area, the other kind of like very physically demanding, tough, laborious jobs that were close by. So there's a lot of those type of of lifters that were there and I was just like some kid.
Speaker 2:But I remember there's one guy there. His name was Gord and he's just like a super, super nice dude. To me he was the most jacked guy I'd ever seen aside from my dad, of course and he's super strong. I saw the way that he trained. He was squatting super heavy. In retrospect I'm not sure if it is as heavy as I would think it is now, but you know, when you're like 15 years old and you're seeing a guy with at least two plates on the on the bar, you're like wow. So I don't know how much he's actually lifting looking back, but to me he was like hercules, um, but the dude was super, super nice.
Speaker 2:He was really encouraging to me when I was there, like you know, and he was. I remember the way he used to speak to me too, like he was really encouraging to me when I was there, like you know, and he was. I remember the way he used to speak to me too, like he was very, uh, soft spoken so he's super jacked but he talked like kind of like this, like quiet and slow and um, something about that, like he was just very approachable, I suppose, and he'd give me compliments, but he'd also slide in like little bits of tips and some feedback on how I could train better. He'd be like, yeah, you're doing that overhead press pretty well. I can tell you're training hard, but have you ever considered moving a little bit more like this or doing this instead?
Speaker 2:And I would pick up on what he'd share with me. And it really helped because he was so approachable and also someone that I looked up to. I actually took his advice to heart and that really helped. He also gave me his what do you call it? The new encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding, that old Schwarzenegger book. He gave me his copy just because he's a nice guy, but yeah, he really um, he really had a positive impact on me and I got, I learned, a little bit about how to train better. He wasn't. He wasn't a personal trainer, not a fitness coach. He wasn't like a world-class expert, but he knew enough to help me, to help me get a decent enough foundation.
Speaker 3:So that's awesome, man. Like. It's always funny how usually the biggest guys like though they may look like mean or like, they're usually like the softest, like most genuine, most nice individual that but they're just giants, right. So, no, that's, that's very cool, man. When it comes to like nutrition back then, like I know for me as a kid kid, my nutrition wasn't the best as a kid, especially with the protein. I'd just be curious about yours when you were growing up, when you started lifting, when did you get more serious with your nutrition? Maybe looking at macros, if you want to go into that?
Speaker 2:Sure, when I was a teen I didn't know anything about nutrition outside of I think protein is important for building muscle, so I didn't really do anything outside of eating what was cooked for dinner that my family had prepared and my lunches. Thinking back in high school, like you know, I had the money that I saved up from working in the summers that I'd spend on my lunches and like the deli next and the store next door and they weren't great lunches like it wasn't. I wasn't focusing on protein there's probably a little bit, but not very much in the old deli sandwiches they had and that sort of thing Tried to get protein in my breakfast. But yeah, I knew protein was good. Actually I didn't know what calories were, but I knew food probably was going to drive my muscle growth progress, but I didn't think much about it. I think in retrospect I am fortunate in that my family had good, structured meals, like when it was cooked, like there was always like a protein source in the family meals that we had and I would eat a lot of it. And like I'm thinking of like my mom growing up she always encouraged us to eat like a lot of protein, like make sure you eat the meat that's cooked for you. So I think that was good.
Speaker 2:I was also a big eater. I got a high food drive, so I've always been someone that's had to stop myself from overeating. I haven't been the other way around, where it's like got to get myself to eat or I forget to eat. It's like I got to stop eating at some point. So I think in retrospect that was probably helpful, because I was so fixated on lifting weights and I was training really, really hard, even though I wasn't perfect at it, that's for sure. I think it was good that I had a high food drive because it helped me build muscle at the end of the day, even though I wasn't the leanest. But I learned more about calories and macros and kind of the basic foundational principles of fat loss and muscle growth how that works with nutrition.
Speaker 3:Probably in my earlier 20s I want to say in probably the latter years of university, nice man, is that when you started to get more involved with bodybuilding or what was kind of the point in time or something that triggered you to want to compete, when it comes to competing, the seed was first planted in my head, I think, in my last year of university, so at that point I I'm not sure how old I was.
Speaker 2:I was in university for a long time, for seven years, so it would have been my seventh year. I'd been lifting since I was 12, so I think I'd already been lifted lifting for at least 10 years almost 10 years by that point. So I had a decent amount of muscle on my frame, um, but I never thought about competing or I, or even what competing really was. I I thought about, like schwarzenegger and and those guys in my old modern encyclopedia of new bodybuilding, new encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding I can't remember, I got the name mixed up but I never really thought about competing myself or really what competing was, until I have a pretty distinct memory of working out, a pretty distinct memory of working out. I had a training session in my last year of university and there was a personal trainer working at the gym that I was working out at it was a good life fitness and he asked me he's like yeah, you got a great physique. Are you competing? Have you ever thought about competing? And I was like, like what's competing, um, but that was what initially planted the seed, and then I kind of I I can't remember what I did next, if I like looked it up or if I what my next step was, but that's the memory I have is is he asked me once or twice like, hey, you should, you should consider doing it? I was like, oh, that's a big compliment, I took it to heart. And that seed, seed grew, I guess.
Speaker 2:And then, um, the next year, when I graduated from university, I worked as an in-person personal trainer and when I was doing that, that's when it really the desire really grew, cause I was around fit people all the time, the other personal trainers there's some of them that were in amazing shape, that I looked up to and they were competing and I was learning more from them and I was getting. I was, at that point, looking more of this whole competition thing up online on youtube and, um, I started to get really interested in it. I felt like, hey, why, why not? I mean, I love training, I, I, I know, up to that point, I just wanted to keep building more muscle. I knew I wanted to keep building more muscle, so why not just have this really focused goal where I get to, like, do the thing that I love and just focus it on this one thing.
Speaker 2:So I I ended up, um, um, taking the plunge and deciding to do a prep, and that would have been 2018 or 2019, um, yeah, so I just I went for it. But that's how the seed planted. Someone said, hey, hey, you should compete or do you compete? And that was it grew from there all right so you're saying your first season.
Speaker 1:So basically your first ever bodybuilding show was 2018 2019. What was that like and what what kind of category were you part at?
Speaker 2:well, the. The prep itself was, in retrospect I think, in the standards of of of. If I were to look at all of the preps that I did, it was the easiest prep that I did. Looking at it Now, it was the shortest it was. I didn't get as lean, as nearly as lean as, like, say, the last prep I did, um, but it was hard in its own sense and that it was the first one I ever did so and it was the leanest I'd ever been in my life up to that point. So even though it wasn't the leanest I'd ever been, it was a shock to my system at that point. Even though it wasn't the longest prep I'd ever done, even close to the longest prep I'd ever done, it was still a shock to the system. More or less.
Speaker 2:I experienced all those kind of prep feelings for the first time that you don't know what they're like until you feel them. So not just like that strange hunger focus, food focus that eventually sets in or you know the feelings that come with hunger, but also like the emotional kind of disturbances, the changes that go on, that I had no idea, like I didn't. I needed to look back on that in retrospect to be like wow, that was something tough. But I, I I feel like for me, like my personality is very built to prep for like that particular kind of challenge. I like repetition and I like grinding, so I like I mean we're bodybuilders, we like doing reps, so like that's my personality. So I I found I felt like I was doing something that I was kind of designed for from that psychological kind of a standpoint. So I, even though it was tough, like I liked that kind of a challenge and I also found it really rewarding, like going from week to week and seeing myself get leaner. That was really cool to get to see that kind of immediate, relatively immediate feedback. And as far as like performance goals go, like how I expected to do on the show today itself, I had no expectations really. I wasn't sure if I was going to come first, second, third, fourth, fifth. I wasn't, I didn't know anything about it. Never done a show in my life, I'd never been to a show in my life. So no expectations. I was an open book. I was kind of just going into it like hey, we'll see what happens, which is like actually a beautiful thing when you're so I was such a blank slate happens, which is actually a beautiful thing. I was such a blank slate, no expectations. That was actually a special thing. It's never been the same since then, but it was good.
Speaker 2:It was a CPA show. It was called the Natural Can Fit Pro. It was in Toronto that's where I was living in the time. It was under the what do you call it? The cn tower. There's a huge convention center around that area. It was. They held it there. This is big, ginormous fitness expo, kind of right in the middle of it.
Speaker 2:And uh, I competed. There was a really small class there was was four. It was classic physique. I was one of four competitors in my weight class, or in my height. It was in height, not weight. That was how they divided the classes, I think, and I ended up winning my class, which was you know, when you're not expecting, you have no expectations going into a show and you end up coming first. It was a pretty cool feeling. I'm not going to lie Like I was pretty over the moon.
Speaker 2:I didn't really understand what I'd just done or anything like that, and I didn't win the overall. It was just me and another guy, or anything like that, and I didn't win the overall. It was just me and another another guy and he was the guy you could tell he was. It wasn't his first rodeo, for sure. He was significantly leaner, way better conditioned than than I was. I had a good amount of muscle, which was, which was helpful. But, um, that other guy, he, uh he, his conditioning. He had a ton of muscle and he was very, very, very conditioned. Um, so he definitely deserved the one on that. But I was just over the moon that I won. I got a gold medal, I won my class and that was like that was the coolest thing in the world. And, um, that did that really drove my desire to keep doing it after that point, because winning was something that showed me that I had potential and I ended up really enjoying being on the stage and, yeah, that was the experience.
Speaker 3:That's awesome man. That's huge First show ever and then taken the, the first place. Man, like that's, that's very impressive. How you mentioned like that was one of like the big things that kept you on, like in terms of you knowing that you have potential in this sport. Do you think, like, looking back at it now, like if you were, say, to come fifth in like that show, would you think you would still be competing in bodybuilding or like what? What are your thoughts around that?
Speaker 2:oh, that's a good question. What would I have done if I played slower? I honestly I'm not sure. I think it could have gone either way. I think the answer that I'm leaning towards is something like if I came last, then a part of me would have wanted to do it again, just to show myself that I could be better. I think that could have happened, um, but I'm not sure. If I, if I came last and I was super discouraged from it, I'm not sure what I would have done. I I suspect I would have wanted to come back and try again. Um, man, I guess it's one of those things where the only way I'd know for sure is that I would have to be in that situation to know I did have a, my third prep, or my first, my third show, I did.
Speaker 2:I. That was one of the hardest experiences that I had. It was a large, larger lineup. I think there was like 12 or 13. Um, in my height. It was another CPA show. It was a natural Van City showdown in Vancouver. It wasn't a WNBF show, it was a CPA show and I did not do as well as I had hoped for, and that was up to that point.
Speaker 2:That was the hardest prep I had ever done, for several reasons, and I didn't do as well as I'd hoped. I came like fourth or fifth I was top five. I didn't get didn't do as well as I'd hoped. I came like fourth or fifth, I was top five. I didn't get a first, second or third medal, but I know it's top five because I came out on that first call out. So it wasn't that bad.
Speaker 2:At a 12 or 13 competitors I was actually quite good. But I was really disappointed in myself because I I felt I peaked really poorly. I did some weird stuff with my diet the days leading up to it and I really beat myself up over that. That was a really, really tough one. I needed a little bit of mental recharge from that, from that. But the the, the feeling that I got afterwards ultimately was I want to do this again so I can show myself that I can be better and do better, have a better end result. And it wasn't just about getting a first, second or third medal, it was about looking better, because I felt like the what I showed on stage was a very poor representation of what I had been working for. So I kind of want to want to reverse that the next time I prepped.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Makes sense, man. Yeah, the reason I ask that is just because I see it happen quite a bit with some people do one show and they don't place too well and they get discouraged and they never want to do it again. So like even for me, like when I did my first show, I was like I don't know what I would have done if I wouldn't have placed as well as I did, because that was that initial driver for me to keep going. But over time in bodybuilding you just learn to really love that process.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I was just curious to hear your thoughts on that. But now, like, fast forwarding forward to like because you're competing next uh year and uh, I'm just curious on like, how much has your perhaps changed from the course of like your first competition prep to all the way to like what you're potentially going to be doing for this last one?
Speaker 2:they've changed a lot. So the first prep that I did, as far as, like, the logistics go, it was a very short prep. It was like 12 weeks, which was kind of you know, that's like the traditional bodybuilding length 12 to 16 week long, week long prep. I had a coach for that one, um, but it was like we just kind of started the prep at 12 weeks out because I was on his wait list and it was like, hey, we, well, I'm off the wait list list and we're 12 weeks out, so that's when we're starting the prep. I knew nothing about it. So I was like, okay, 12 weeks, that sounds like a long time, let's do it. Um, but yeah, so the, the, the duration was significantly, significantly less than it is now. So that's a big one.
Speaker 2:My mindset is way different. My approach to hunger and food is significantly different. So the first several seasons was you know, I'm fighting hunger, I'm fighting it, I'm finding all these different hacks and ways to try to mitigate my hunger levels. The first prep was kind of messy too. I was kind of unintentionally cheating on my diet, in that I was, and this was just out of ignorance, this isn't wasn't out of like, oh I'm, I'm like I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing. It was just. It was an ignorance thing where I was like eating extra vegetables and I was like there's not really any calories in these vegetables, the amount of calories that I was eating from the extra vegetables that I was eating. There was a lot of calories that I was taking in and it was leaving me bloated and extra uncomfortable from the extra vegetables I was cheating, using to cheat with. But I was fighting those kind of emotions and those feelings significantly more for like that first prep, for example, than, let's say, this prep or my last prep. I feel like I have a lot more control and mastery over embracing the feeling of hunger rather than fighting it and not trying to eat too much volume or too high of a volume of food.
Speaker 2:The third prep that I did was probably the peak of how that could go wrong for me was I was fighting hunger so much for the third prep that I did that it left me just. It made the process so much more difficult. I bloated all the time and the hunger was still there. So it's like this weird feeling where I was like super lean, I was eating a ton, I was bloated but I still wanted to keep eating. I was really uncomfortable. I was still thinking about it all the time. I was thinking about all these weird flavors. So, yeah, I think embracing the hunger instead of fighting it now is something that's been a big change for me.
Speaker 2:Also, having more control over my mental. The mental things that I'm feeling, the emotional things that I'm feeling, have way better control over my mental. The, the mental things that I'm feeling, the emotional things that I'm feeling have way better control over that now. I think that's just come with experience, having done it multiple times at this point and what else. As far as like training goes, that's something that's changed pretty significantly.
Speaker 2:My first three preps I was training seven days a week. I love training. So, honestly, I could still train seven days a week. I love being in the gym, it's my favorite thing. But those first three preps training seven days a week it was the same kind of split that I'm doing now, a full body training split, but the frequency was higher more overall weekly sets, more overall weekly training sessions, still training as hard as I possibly could, but just high, very high frequency and overall pretty high set volume over the course of the week. And now I'm training.
Speaker 2:At this point in this prep I'm training four days a week, which actually takes a little bit of self-control for me not to train five or six days. But it's come with only good training a little bit less and I've learned how to train pretty efficiently. So I think that's come with experience is the skill of lifting more efficiently. Training really hard with the fewer sets and the fewer training sessions that I am doing during the week, I think it's leaving my body feeling less beat up. Overall. It is helping me from a psychological standpoint. Started doing that in my last prep, actually in 2023. But yeah, those are the first ones that come first. Differences that come to mind initially anyways makes sense.
Speaker 3:What did you notice? Any change in appetite from training seven days a week to going to four, um like? Did you notice like that coming down from not having as much fatigue, or did you notice it being about the same? What did that look like for you?
Speaker 2:you know, surprisingly I I haven't noticed much of a change. I think I think my personality ever since I can remember I've got a high food drive. So whether I'm like bulking or in a maintenance phase or dieting for fat loss and a prep, I'm always hungry. I can always keep eating more. And that goes for training versus rest days overall. And actually you know, it's funny now that I'm thinking about it I often find that on the days where I don't train I'm almost more hungry than the days that I do train. I think it's kind of nice in that the way that I structure my days is that when I do train, I plant my training session right in the middle of the day, after I've had like in between meals and from my understanding, like, if you're training really hard, you probably aren't, you aren't likely to be thinking about food as much if you're training really hard.
Speaker 2:Training is a stressor. Cortisol is released as a byproduct of that. One of the effects that cortisol has when it's secreted is it suppresses appetite. When it's secreted in spikes acutely. So it actually keeps me not thinking about food when I do have my training sessions on those days. But then the days that I don't have training sessions, my training sessions. I've got a big empty space of time and also that empty space is filled not with the training session where I wouldn't be thinking about food. So I think that might play a role in why I might actually feel a little bit more hungry on the days where I don't train, which might be counterintuitive to what you might think.
Speaker 3:That makes sense, man, because I know even when I train I sometimes just almost feel nauseous just from training so hard. So when you're feeling slightly nauseous you're not going to feel like eating food. So it totally makes sense, man. When it comes to the post-show period. Since you have such a high food drive, naturally do you find that post-show period even more extreme for yourself. Have you had quite a difficult time with that recovery phase post-show, or have you found ways to reduce the amount of weight gain post-show?
Speaker 2:I have gained a? That's a good question. I've binged pretty hard after every show, every competition season I've done After. I think the best job I did at delaying the rapid weight gain was after my first competition. In retrospect I think that was because I didn't get as lean, so I wasn't hurting as much, whether I realized it or not, from just I mean, I was dieted for 12 weeks but you know I was like 12 or 13 pounds heavier than I was in my last season. So I was just, you know I had more fat on my body, like I wasn't hurting as much, um for for that reason. But what I ended up doing for that first season was I just kept eating my regular prep meals but I just added more food like what we probably should do like, added like three to 500 more calories and you know it felt fine. I still had like a desire to keep eating, but it felt fine. I didn't weigh myself after that. So I'm not sure what my weight gain trajectory was like at all, but I did eventually binge and gain back like 10 pounds, 10 extra pounds, quite quickly within a very short period of time.
Speaker 2:And that was the memory I have was I went on a trip to Vegas. It was my first time in Vegas. It was just my dad and I. We flew down there, met up for a couple days and we went to an all-you-can-eat restaurant and, oh man, that was probably the most I ever ate in my life and I didn't know. I had never experienced that kind of excess eating in a single session, I think, and a single meal. But I remember that was our lunch. I ate to the point of like food baby is an understatement. I was so bloated that it was just ridiculous and we had to keep walking for the rest of the day, like we had stuff planned to do for the rest of the day and I remember being in so much pain, like walking around with my dad, but I was also trying to hide it. It like I didn't want to let my dad know that I was like he didn't know. I felt like I was dying. He's like, oh, my son, he eats a lot. It's like not a big deal, but like, um, I was dying. So that was tough.
Speaker 2:But yeah, for all of the other shows, like I gained, I gained weight back pretty rapidly for each of them. I you know, the next, the next day, the following day. I'd really really get after the food. Um, probably more than 10,000 calorie days, probably more than that in retrospect, um, and then I would eat for weeks after lots of calories gain, gain weight back very quickly.
Speaker 2:Um, from a psychological standpoint, my personality, I I don't struggle a lot with like losing the lines, losing the definition, losing the tone. I guess a little bit it's like, oh, it kind of sucks, it's not there anymore. But usually I get to the end of the season, the diet that I'm like, I just don't really I'm cool with gaining back body fat. I don't care, I'll like put on my like a long sleeve shirt, sweater, sweatpants and, um, like I'm, I'm cool with just like being comfortable again as far as like being able to eat a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Um, and then focus more on training.
Speaker 2:Like I, I can focus my energy and my next set of of goals on like just having good training sessions and getting stronger again. So, from a psychological standpoint, that's been okay and, yeah, I you know it's not, it's not like optimal the way that I've done it, that's for sure, or at least I. I think it's not optimal like gaining weight back so quickly after each season after, yeah, after each season, after, yeah, after each season. But, um, I think overall it's, it's been okay. It's just I ended up getting to a healthy body fat percentage. I just get there maybe faster than most people do, and then my training sessions end up going better, maybe faster than if I were to like slowly reverse up, um, so there's definitely there's definitely room for critique as to like the rate in which I gained weight, but at the end of the day, I ended up getting to a healthy body fat percentage and my training gets better faster, so maybe it's okay yeah, I do think for like, like from just uh coaching clients experience to like.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's certain individuals where it's almost better just to be a bit more aggressive with the weight gain post show. Um, I find for a lot of people it's just the mental aspect of like. Seeing that happen can sometimes be harsh. Like it's awesome to hear that Like it's. It wasn't much of a battle for you mentally to do that. How how long did it take to like start to get to the point of feeling normal with your appetite? After do you find you still, even if it's six months later, like you're still have a appetite where you still want to eat more than what you're consuming, or or does that calm down to a point where you're eating at a level where you're like okay, I'm very comfortable with the amount of food I'm eating.
Speaker 2:For the first couple of preps I did because I didn't get as lean. I think I recovered in that element, in that aspect, more quickly, so it didn't take as long once I gained back that had that initial weight gain spike happen. It didn't take as long for me to feel like my appetite levels were kind of back to normal and my energy levels were kind of back to normal. And this is thinking back years now so I can't remember for sure, but in hindsight that's what I I think happened. My last couple of seasons though it took longer, it was harder. So my last season, um the prep was that was the longest prep I'd done at and I it was the leanest I'd ever got.
Speaker 2:Um, it probably took me that one probably took at least six months before I felt like I was completely okay as far as like normal appetite levels go, not as much food focus. My energy was fine within within a month, probably overall, just because I gained weight back rapidly. I had the energy stores on my body like. So, from like a physical energy standpoint, um, I think that came back relatively quick. Um, my strength came back relatively quick. I remember thinking like, wow, I'm like my bench press has gone up pretty quick and it's only been about four weeks since prep and I was pretty pumped on that but psychologically and appetite wise it took. It took a long time. That one's probably. I remember thinking six months after that show like wow, I still don't feel like a hundred percent normal gotcha.
Speaker 3:Do you think that was just due to the length of the prep itself and like being that, getting to the levelliness that you got to and being trying to hold it for for that longer? Because, like when you for that last prep that you did, like were you continuing to die down throughout the whole?
Speaker 2:thing, or were you?
Speaker 3:like getting to a point where you're starting to feed back up, or like holding. What was that kind of looking like for you?
Speaker 2:the. I started to eat back up only three, three weeks from the end. So it was between my, my second, last and my last show. We started to eat up a little bit and it wasn't a lot. It was like we added an extra like 25 carbs or something like it was. Maybe it was more than that. It was like 200 calories worth of carbohydrates, something like that. So it was like a very a relatively small um ink reverse, I suppose um going from that second last to last show.
Speaker 2:So the, the vast majority of the prep was, was fat loss. I didn't do a maintenance phase or anything like that. It was my. This was my um first time working with jeff alberts too, so it was like from a coaching standpoint, I think he needed to get an understanding of like of my physique, like what, how lean. We didn't know how lean I needed to get to actually um be really competitive on the stage. So I think part of the prep was like him learning my physique and what my limits were, and also me learning more about my physique and what my limits were and exactly how lean I needed to be.
Speaker 2:So anyways, the way we pace it, it was pretty much fat loss through the entire 11 months. There were some periods where it was definitely easier, where, like I remember, there was probably a few months where I had three refeed weeks, three days a week, um, I had refeeds or high days, um. So that was, like you know, it made fat loss dieting not very invasive. Doing that for months and I think that was because we were kind of getting this understanding like, okay, maybe we don't need to push as much, but overall I was still in a deficit. I was still losing weight within those weeks or within those months of having the three high days, within those weeks or within those months of having the three three high days. But yeah, to answer your question, I think that, yes, one of the main reasons that I felt like my appetite was impacted or it didn't go back to my baseline, normal levels after the final show ended was because the prep was so long. I think that was. That was definitely a part of it makes sense, I guess?
Speaker 3:yeah, like when you're in it for that long, hormones are just gonna continue, just trend downwards. So yeah, makes makes sense, ben with with uh, how like your last prep went, everything like that what are you guys planning for your season next year, like, are there some main points that you guys are switching up or doing something different? If you could go into that, that'd be great.
Speaker 2:Sure, well, it's going to be another long prep. I like the long preps. Jeff sold me on that. On the last one it was long and it was tough, but it was nice because I didn't have to be as assertive and those periods where you're adding in extra cardio or you're dieting super, super hard where it really feels invasive. Even though the prep like the last prep I did it was longer, it was overall, it was just because it was less invasive. It felt a little bit, it left me feeling more fresh and also I got the leanest I'd ever been up to that point. So I had the best stage look. So I think it just works better overall. So I'm totally convinced of that. So it's another long prep. It's actually a little bit longer this time around. So I think it just works better overall. So I'm totally convinced of that. So it's another long prep. It's actually a little bit longer this time around. So I think it's about 11 months from the start of the first part of the prep until the first show, and then I'll compete for somewhere between one to two months.
Speaker 2:I'll do like three or four shows within a slightly smaller window of time than the last time around, I think, um, so the prep itself is going to be a little bit longer than, say, the last one, not a ton longer, but a little bit longer. Um, we're also we, because jeff knows my physique a little bit better, he knows my personality better and because we've been working together for longer, we were very strategic, or we were more strategic about, like, planning my weight for the start of the prep and like we worked, he helped me through my whole improvement season and made sure like I didn't get too heavy, because that's my tendency I have a high food drive, like if I'm left to my own devices, I'd I'd I'd be heavier than I should be. So we made sure that I was a certain weight when I got started and I actually started my like pre-prep diet 10 weeks ago. So I'm, I'm dieting right now, um, but yeah, so, so perhaps a little bit longer because we have a little bit more time. We're going to plug a maintenance block in the middle of it between my pre-prep diet and the prep-prep diet afterwards. So the maintenance block, I think it's tentatively going to be somewhere between four to eight weeks long. So that'll be new.
Speaker 2:I didn't do a maintenance block in my last, in my last one, which I'm you know, I'm already kind of looking forward to the maintenance block. I've been dieting for 10 weeks. It doesn't feel super invasive or anything, but like you know how it feels dieting for a while and like from from a psychological standpoint, it's like you know I could, I could eat a little bit more. I'm like my body feels okay, I feel pretty good, I'm feeling good about like looking tighter from week to week, but I could, you know I could eat a little bit more. So I'm kind of already looking forward to a maintenance block a little bit. So I'm excited about that. I think that'll help me recharge my batteries and both physically and psychologically, before starting the hardest.
Speaker 2:The latter part of the prep diet and then, yeah, of the prep diet and then, yeah, do the prep diet.
Speaker 2:That'll be I can't remember how long, like four to six months in there.
Speaker 2:It's five to six months and yeah, the goal is same as the last season, the other seasons to see if I can do better than I have ever before, get a little bit more conditioned than I have in the past. I am really excited and hopeful that I will see some improvements on my physique. During my improvement season I was really kind of focused on bringing up some of my weaker areas. So I'm really excited to see if the extra attention that I gave my weaker areas during the improvement season it shows on my stage lean physique. I'm really fingers crossed, that shows and yeah. So I guess, to answer that question, some of the big changes would be perhaps a little bit longer. Got a maintenance block in the middle middle. It's going to be even less invasive than the last one was. Goals are to see a better physique than I'd ever seen before, than I've ever seen before. Hopefully I'll get to see some of the improvements that I've been really focusing on, especially in the improvement season. But yeah, I think what are?
Speaker 1:are some of the maybe specifics of either body parts or condition on places that you say quote, unquote, improvements.
Speaker 2:As far as muscle growth goes, my weak body parts that we found for my last season were my delts and, like my mid upper back muscles, like my traps especially. It was like I think my lats are pretty wide, which is no surprise because I've been like so fixated on like pull ups and pull downs ever since I first started lifting, like kind of obsessed. I thought like building a back was all about the lats so I would focus on that. Um, and I kind of neglected my traps, like the rowing movements. I would do them cause it was like well, I'm doing them, cause you should probably have a row, but I was just like I can't really feel my lats as much when I'm doing a row, so I don't like them as much. Um, so it's no surprise that my lat or my, my traps were, are considered, are probably there, are, are warranted to have been considered a weak point, um, but building my traps, building my lats to focus on them, I have in my improvement season I gave them a little bit more training volume, not not a ton, but on average maybe like three to five more sets per week to those body parts than my other body parts. Focus I gave them and I am giving them with my training, like making sure my mind muscle connection is as good as it can be with my traps when I am doing rowing type movements, and same thing with my delts. I think it's been easy in the past for me doing like movements, like lateral raises, to just do them like through the motions, like not really connecting very well with with my delts when I do the lateral raises, sometimes like lifting too heavy, doing I mean going through the motions, going to failure, but not really feeling my delts very well, getting to the end of the set and be like, well, I think it worked but not really knowing for sure because I can't really feel my delts, like I can't do another one. So I think it worked. But now it's just being really particular about making sure that for every movement that I'm doing for my delts and my traps that I'm spending that time efficiently, good mind-muscle connection, training them hard, moving with really good depth. So just being really efficient with training them, and then on top of that a little bit I've added a little bit more volume to them compared to my other body parts.
Speaker 2:As far as conditioning goes, I got pretty decent conditioning in my last season pretty decent conditioning. In my last season. Uh, that was the the leanest I'd ever been. Up to that point, I got to the point where I I don't think, from a psychological standpoint, I could have got any leaner. I know, uh, brandon, you asked earlier like, did I? Was there a point where I ate up in that season? And I did start eating up when I was three weeks out towards the last competition. One of the reasons we started eating up was maybe I could have lost more body fat, but it was like I was so psychologically fried and hungry and food focused by that point that I don't know if, like, my psyche could have handled any more dieting. So I think I got pretty much as lean as I could have.
Speaker 2:But there was still at that point point like I was seeing striations, like, especially in my right glute, like they were there, like you could see them. Awesome, my left glute, for whatever reason, stores a little bit more body fat than the right one. It's, like you know, gonna blame the genetics on that one, at least a little bit. So, shoot, I'm some hoping that for this this time around. Like, I'm sure the striations are going to show up on the right glute, but I'm going to aim for them also a little bit more. They were they were there on the left glute the last time, but they weren't not as visible this time. Hopefully we can make them a little bit more equal.
Speaker 2:So, as far as conditioning goes, just like, get those last couple trouble spots of body fats, and I think that's, in practice, that's just going to come from. Well, maybe a couple things. So losing more body fat, maybe I've got to lose another pound or two of body fat, maybe more than that, I don't know. Another pound or two to body fat, maybe more than that, I don't know. And on the other one is things like mastering stress management, that sort of thing. I think that might help overall, whether it has some kind of an effect on fat loss or water retention or what have you, to help really leave my physique looking tighter by the time I'm on stage. I think that kind of thing will be helpful. So, self-mastery over stress management, working on that, that's something that I've been thinking about for a long time and that I've been working on. I think that's actually I mean, I'm only 10 weeks into the pre-prep diet, but I feel like I've I have got a lot better control still a feel like I have got a lot better control Still a work in progress, but a lot better control on that and also sleep to an extent. I think, if I can, I'm going to do something a little bit different this time.
Speaker 2:In my last prep, my sleep schedule was it was so bad. My last prep, my sleep schedule was it was so bad. I was in the last part of the season of the prep. I would fall asleep on my couch, I'd finish the work day and then I'd eat my dinner. I'd watch something on Netflix while I'd eat my dinner and then I'd fall asleep on my couch at like 7.15, 7.30, just pass out. Then I'd wake up at like 10pm, drag myself to bed my legs feel like they weigh a million pounds and then I'd fall asleep. So I had no trouble falling asleep.
Speaker 2:But then I'd wake up at 2 in the morning, 2.30 in the morning. So my day would start at 2 in the morning, 2.30 in the morning. That was really tough psychologically. So I think what I'm going to do is I could use a little bit more sleep than that. So maybe make it a goal to see if I can sneak in an extra 30 to 60 minutes. But you know, when you're super, super lean it's like the body gets you up. It's tough to get back to sleep after that point. But what I think I'm going to do is I'm going to force myself to not fall asleep at 7 or 7.30. Myself to not fall asleep at 7 or 7 30. I'm gonna try to force myself to have like a, a real bedtime not an infant bedtime.
Speaker 1:Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, yeah, I just have a a side question that I wanted to ask. Um, just dialing back, remembering you saying that you competed in classic physique in both of the cpa shows previously and, uh, just stalk through your last season, 2023, you did a bodybuilding. Now there was probably a choice in between bodybuilding and classic physique. Now introducing classic physique into the wmbf. Now, I think last year, this year, I don't remember it was this year.
Speaker 3:It was this year.
Speaker 1:Right, it was this year. Yeah, I'm going to get in trouble for this, but yeah. So this year we are introducing Classic Physique into WMBF. Would it interest you to take part in the Classic Physique division or would you want to stick with bodybuilding?
Speaker 2:I'm leaning towards just sticking with bodybuilding. I think I don't know, I don't I not sure how to fully articulate as to why that is, but I think it's like okay, I I decided my last season and this is yeah, that would have been like right before they introduced classic physique. But I made the decision in my last season like I want to go all in on this in the wmbf, in bodybuilding. I kind of made that decision and, um, when they announced that they're doing classic physique, I was kind of confused. I was like I just thought, like should I compete in both? Like should I consider doing one or the other? And at this point I'm leaning towards just doing doing bodybuilding, seeing how far I can take that. But I'm not completely, I haven't completely decided I might do both yeah like, I feel like bodybuilding and classic like.
Speaker 3:like they're so close, like there's still a lot of people like well, you see it in the CPA all the time, like even in WMBF. Sometimes you'll see like the classic person also wins the bodybuilding. So it kind of gives you a second opportunity to potentially get that pro card. But yeah, like that's another thing I wanted to chat about too is I know we were chatting on your podcast a little bit there about the pro card.
Speaker 2:Is that one of the big goals of this season is to try to achieve that? Yeah, material goals definitely. Definitely doing it to win and to get a pro card for sure. Um, it's not everything, but I'd be lying if I said it was definitely not at the top of my radar and then what, what, what's every show that you're doing this year are you?
Speaker 3:do you have them all picked out so far, or is there like a couple that you're not sure?
Speaker 2:about. I've got two picked out so far. The first two so I'm going to do the WMBF Vancouver it's the first one I'm aiming for and then the WMBF Kelowna. I live in Kelowna. It's a local show and I'd love to do a local show where I don't have to go to a hotel, just have my own kitchen and my own bed and everything. So that'll be really nice. So the first two are picked, not 100% sure about the next ones.
Speaker 2:I think I am going to try to do ones that are all like relatively close to where I live. The last season that I did, I went all over the place. I went to like Ontario, then California, then Alberta, then Washington State, so it was like kind of just just bouncing all over the place and that was really really tough, all the travel. So I think the idea of doing shows that are a little bit closer, where I can potentially they're not much more than a six or seven hour drive away I think that would be really nice. So anyways, first two shows picked WMBF Vancouver, wmbf Kelowna. Think that would be really nice. So anyways, first two shows picked wmbf vancouver, wmbf colona, and then the third and possibly fourth show, I'm not sure yet I'll. I'll decide a little closer, I think nice man.
Speaker 3:No, that'll be good. I'll be at the colona show, for sure. I know adrian's gonna be at the vancouver, since he's one of the promoters for that one. So yeah, man, looking forward to seeing you compete. Man, it's going to be a good season for you, I know it.
Speaker 2:Thanks, brandon, I'm excited.
Speaker 1:We all are too. Yeah, because you have a really great physique. But yeah, is there any other additional questions you're going to have?
Speaker 3:I was just going to ask one final question, um, just about like what was like the most memorable moment so far with, like, competing in bodybuilding. What was like the one um thing that every time you think about it, you're like man, I was able to do that. Or, oh, this was like such a cool experience. Um, do you have one of those in mind?
Speaker 2:I I think I actually do. It was after my second show. So the show itself it was. It was a pretty good show. I I came second and you know I was. It was during one of the coveted years, so like they didn't even know if they're gonna have the show and like you know it was, it was pretty fun. I was pretty happy with how I did. But what I really enjoyed was afterwards was being with my family, like just it felt really rewarding, like the season came to a close. I did pretty well, I felt like it was pretty fun being on the stage, but then just it was. That was the.
Speaker 2:The natural van city showdown in vancouver and I my mom was there, my grandparents were there and my brother lives in vancouver, so he was there. So it's just us and so it's just. You know didn't have a ton of people there, but my closest family and we all. It was Thanksgiving that weekend, so what we did was, immediately after the show, we got sushi together, which was nice. I didn't actually overeat yet, it's just like I had a normal meal and it was good. I was really happy to be with my family and then we just chilled at my brother's place. And Thanksgiving was the next day, but we just chilled at my brother's place. And, uh, thanksgiving was the next day, but we just chilled at my brother's place and it was just like my closest family.
Speaker 2:My brother had like a small studio apartment in kitsilano, a really cool location in vancouver, and um, yeah, just those couple days were really nice. We ended up preparing the Thanksgiving meal in my brother's really small studio apartment. There wasn't like a real kitchen or anything like that, everything was all in one place and that was just really nice, really close family. I felt relieved and happy about how the show went and we had Thanksgiving dinner. It was really nice, definitely overate, definitely ate too much, but yeah, it's just being with family.
Speaker 2:And then I remember my mom drove herself and my grandparents home the day after Thanksgiving but I stayed there an extra day just to chill with my brother. So I just hung out with my brother for that next day and that was just a lot of fun. It was just one day of like no care in the world Could eat what I wanted, got to spend time with my brother and yeah, I just remember like it was such a I had so much internal peace. That's what it was. It was just like such a peaceful weekend, no anxiety about anything, just spending time with family, and that was it.
Speaker 3:It that's what comes to mind, it's always a cool how, like the post-show period, especially with family, and like just they sound like everything just came together like perfectly for you on that that day. So yeah, man that's. That's awesome to hear um thanks again for for being on the podcast again. Maybe share where the listeners can follow you, if it's. I think you're really doing a really good job on YouTube. But yeah, if you want to give them some of your, your links and stuff yeah sure.
Speaker 2:well, on YouTube, I think my account's just Sam Kaplan, so you can subscribe to my YouTube account. I've got a fitness podcast, a natural bodybuilding podcast, on there. I also share some of my own journey as well. In addition to YouTube, you can follow me on Instagram as well. My Instagram handle is at Jade Athletics, so I think those two places YouTube, instagram.
Speaker 1:Yeah we'll definitely put all those links in the description below so you guys can find them easily. Now he is going to be competing, so please do follow his bodybuilding journey. We are all very, very hyped and very, very excited to see him and making all those new improvements on stage. We wish the best of luck and we look forward to all that. Now, before we close out, any final words of wisdom for our listeners.
Speaker 2:Oh boy, words of wisdom. Oh boy, words of wisdom, um just anything if there's something. If there's something that you want to work towards, then why not work towards it?
Speaker 1:that's it. Love it, love it, okay then? Uh, yeah, we'll close out the stories. Uh, so thanks guys for listening again. Uh, we'll see you guys next time.