Lifting Nerds
Adrian Ma and Brandon Emslie share discussions and interviews with the fitness community's best science-based researchers and coaches.
Lifting Nerds
S3E12: Are You Fighting Your Own DNA in the Gym?
Genetics significantly influence your bodybuilding potential, but understanding your limitations can help you maximize your physique through strategic training and posing techniques.
• Brandon and Adrian analyze their own genetic structures and limitations
• Brandon describes his naturally dense abs and wider waist
• Adrian shares his excellent V-taper but struggles with muscle thickness and stubborn body parts
• We examine "genetic elite" natural bodybuilders like Jeff Seid, David Laid, and Will Tennyson
• Even those with elite genetics have specific weaknesses
• Scientific research suggests training in lengthened positions may affect muscle growth differently
• Most natural bodybuilders never truly reach their genetic ceiling due to insufficient long-term training
• The first five years yield the most dramatic results, but growth continues for decades with proper training
• Performance-enhancing drugs don't erase genetic limitations
• Success comes from focusing on controllables: consistency, nutrition, and training longevity
Comment below or DM us if you want our assessment of your genetic potential for bodybuilding. Remember to follow us on Instagram and subscribe on YouTube!
IG: @liftingnerds
Youtube: liftingnerds
Host
@_adrianma
@brandonemslie
doing. I don't know if you watched our own youtube videos.
Speaker 2:I actually I haven't watched the last, I think the last one or the one before, yeah, yeah, it's been oh it's not that interesting right I don't know if you're like me. Yeah, like where it's like when you create content and then you hear back your voice. There's always some level level of you just don't like it, I understand.
Speaker 1:I don't like it. I think we talked about this before. I remember telling you I don't like the voice of the podcast of myself. I don't like it. I can't accept. I just don't find there's a good hook or I just can't stand myself listening. I'm okay listening to you while you go on and ramble on on whatever we're talking about. I just can't talk.
Speaker 2:I just can't tolerate myself well, I'm the opposite, but I think because there is something like we're when we hear ourself through our own ears and stuff like that. Um, like, when we speak, like, like currently, like it sounds way different than what it sounds like when you hear it off of a video.
Speaker 2:So like if there's something I think there was some like sort of like research or something around it where, yeah, it's, it's so much different right um between the two, and that's why we get kind of like annoyed or we don't like it because it doesn't sound like it's us it doesn't sound what we think it is.
Speaker 1:It sounds like we hear it here versus what others perceive it, as I guess that makes sense. I guess that does make sense, but anyways, uh, now we've got the whole hour to talk about ourselves and then and then we can actually talk about stuff that is actually useful. But yeah, it's been what? How many weeks now it's been? It's actually just been two weeks since we last spoke. How I know you went down to see your mother, yeah, out in the island. So that was nice Fans who have been following your Instagram. If not, we see you still were maintaining pretty active. You were at the gym pretty nice gym and then you were on a good couple of trails that you were on a walk. So, yeah, share that experience with us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it was good. Like, yeah, I kind of set up that trip a little bit earlier this year and like, yeah, my mom lives in Parksville so it's super nice out there. There's like a lot of beaches on ocean and there's a lot of nice hiking trails, so we kind of toured around. Uh, there's uh some good go-karts there too. I always I'm a sucker for go-karts, especially the fast ones. So, um, that that was a lot of fun and, yeah, just did some hiking. As for like actual training, like I kept my training routine pretty much the exact same. Um, I always find, with vacations, just getting them in uh in the morning um is very useful, because then it's like you don't have to worry about doing it after all the activities you do that day.
Speaker 2:Or like you're more likely to kind of brush it off or skip it later on in the day, I find, especially when it comes to vacations. So I'm like, okay, get up in the morning, have my coffee, have a quick snack, go to the gym, um, and then, once I've done that kind of do whatever, um, still had to work a little bit.
Speaker 2:Uh, while I was down there just with like checking some client messages but I try to not do as much like social media content when I'm on vacation and try to stay off of it as much as I can, just to kind of get a nice break from it, but no it was good man, my weight.
Speaker 2:I was expecting my weight to be up a little bit coming back, but it's still on a really good trajectory. Like I'm like 179 or one yeah, 179 when I weighed myself this morning and like I'm still not even 10 pounds up from stage weight, so like things have been nice and gradually increasing. Um, I did notice when I was out there with all the activity I was a little bit hungrier, um and like with some homemade cooking and with eating out I was loosely guesststimating. I'm bad for kind of overestimating sometimes, like probably more than I should, to be on the safe side. But it definitely helps when it comes to, yeah, making sure this recovery phase goes as planned.
Speaker 1:That's been quite a bit. So it's been almost a month since your last show. Was it like may um?
Speaker 2:I think it's all. It's been like six weeks. It's probably been a month and a half, or maybe even I think it's either six yeah, I think it's 17th.
Speaker 1:That was the show. Yeah, it's july, now six weeks since your since the colonna show, I can't't forget the dates and you're sitting just slightly just below 10 pounds from stage weight. I'm sorry Then. So it's. Yeah, you're right, it's been a very gradual state. Are you technically just trying to stay within this range throughout the summer to maintain the physique as quote unquote lean, or are you just going at a very slow pace, gradually building up back into into an off-season body weight?
Speaker 2:I'm just doing a slower pace because since, like this last competition season, I didn't quite get as lean because I was just doing men's physique, um, but I kind of did body like two um, so I wasn't quite having the same extreme symptoms after the show, so I figured I could do this recovery phase at a slower pace, like I feel like right now I'm pretty much fully recovered.
Speaker 2:Like um, appetite is still certain, during certain days creeps up a little bit, but it's extremely more manageable uh, than it was um, like a couple like three to four weeks post show than it was like a couple like three to four weeks post show where it was still quite elevated.
Speaker 2:So like I think probably give it another couple of weeks and I'll be like a hundred percent fully recovered and then I can slow down that rate even more. Like I've been gaining probably about a pound, just over a pound, per week during this recovery phase, which I generally recommend with my athletes too to kind of get up to a healthy body fat relatively quickly, but try not to like go so quickly where you're gaining like four or five pounds a week and you're up like 30 pounds in a month. Like we don't want to do that, but, yeah, I've slowed down the rate this time, like last time I did this, I was, I would be probably 20 pounds up right now, back in 2023. So this time around, yeah, I'm going to be like half that and it was giving me a longer runway during the offseason to slowly build up and gain like two pounds per month kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. I wouldn't want to say that my, my recovery sort of started after colonna so I started feeding quite aggressively leading into the edmonton show, and it was, it's good. It's been five or four weeks after colonna, before the edmonton show, and I was already feeding into that show quite a lot like 3 000 calories in almost five days a week then. Uh, so recovery for me just felt uh, a lot quicker. Uh, after the edmonton show. It's been what? Three weeks since the edmonton show, I'm already, I would say, two kilos. So that's already 10 pounds, almost 10. Wait, is that 10 pounds? Yeah, around 10 pounds or less above my stage weight that we weighed 62 point something kilos on the show day morning and I'm sitting pretty comfortably here, appetite's fairly normal, not as, not as big as it used to be. Uh, during my peak off season, um, but yeah, again, just I think, that very similar uh aspect as you, um, I'm just slowly trying to build the, the calories, up, slowly trying to recover the appetite, as when I was 2023, 2024, that was my peak season when I was up to like 70 71 kilos kilos, that was the, that was a pretty high appetite, was eating a three to 500 calories a day. Now I'm not quite there yet, just slight of 3000 calories a day. So just slowly getting there. Body composition wise and not as lean, of course, but still pretty damn lean. Just just be knowing my, just knowing my, under my, my, my body composition, which leads us to talk about what we want to talk about today.
Speaker 1:Finally, now we're going to start off with ourselves and as we always like to talk about ourselves for a big half of the show before we talk about stuff, that's always important, but let's get into it for today's show. First of all. You know, welcome guys. I didn't say that for back, another episode. Here we want to talk a little bit about our genetics and how important it is in the bodybuilding community, then know and understand that natural bodybuilding has its limitations. So genetic will play a bit of a role, rather enhanced or a natural bodybuilder. However, let's talk about our own genetics and then we'll probably dive a little bit on other influencers or other bodybuilders who you know who'd be very, really interesting.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about you first. You know we always want to talk about you. Now I'm just looking online, so if you guys want to see, just go ahead and go to Google and search for Brandon Emsley. You'll find him on Google and her photos. You'll find plenty of photos of himself, selfies and stuff like that. So let's talk about you first. Okay Now. So just to assess for your physique. Now, everybody's very built very differently. What would you say your structurally? What would you say say structurally, your physique will actually look like? I'll let you do the honors and assessing yourself yes.
Speaker 2:So like structurally, like uh, I'd say I have like pretty decent genetics like, especially in like the abs, like um, they just work out really well. They're very symmetrical um. I've never had a hard time building them, they both. They've always been very, very dense um. But yeah, from a shoulder width standpoint I feel like I'm not like super wide um with like my uh clavicles, like I feel like I have pretty average like clavicle clavicle lengths um, and then my waist is probably a little bit wider than what you generally want for like a bodybuilder competitor. So yeah, I would say like abdominals, like my rectus abdominis muscles are very well developed.
Speaker 2:They've always been like a genetic strong suit for me. I would say, like shoulders are pretty solid for me, especially like that anterior delt. I've always never had an issue growing that, but I think it's because of the way I used to train, where I was very shoulder dominant with a lot of my pressing. And then, what about your back? My back, I would say back is pretty good. Same thing, though I feel like I can get some pretty good density with it.
Speaker 2:But I don't have that same width as some of those guys on stage, uh, with their like very wide shoulders that really emphasize that taper. So I feel like I have a decent amount of muscle back there, um, but it's just it doesn't give quite as much of a taper as I've seen in a lot of individuals, but I think that could be due to, like, the slightly wider waist also playing into that. If my waist was, or my hip bones were, a little bit tighter in, I would get more of that taper. But yeah, so I would. I would definitely say, like my arms, my shoulders are a pretty big strong suit. Back's pretty solid too, just not quite as wide as some of the guys. And then legs I feel like legs, have taken me so long to build up but they're still because I feel like with my quads, especially on like that sweep area, I feel like my tendon is a little bit longer or something, something or just the way it's inserted with my quad muscle.
Speaker 2:What are you talking about? I missed it. Um, so I'm trying to think of the one that's ladder like the fastest lateralis, uh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'm looking at your uh. I'm just looking at your uh shot from wmowna where you're doing a side tricep extended with your legs straight. We can actually see here. I'm going to put the picture up if you're watching on YouTube. So if you're just listening, just check it out, or YouTube as well. I put a picture up of him on the screen here so we can see from the knee and into his QL. There's a big gap between his patella and his insertion of his uh, his vl. But then your vl actually runs out pretty well, pretty well right into your um, into your eight, into your ic ac. I don't know, I don't know that, I don't, I forgot that.
Speaker 2:So the iliac of the iliac crest, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you do have a pretty high insertion for for your vl yeah, and that's what makes me like it's tough, because if I have shorts that come down that cover that portion, people are like always like, oh man, your legs are so small and it's like, well, if I just pull it up a little bit you can see it more. But um, yeah, it's, it's tough for bodybuilding, just yeah, because it does kind of give off a little bit of a smaller leg from like front relax or my front relax pose and stuff like that. So like to specifically try to target that sweep. I know it's very hard to like bias just your vastus lateralis muscle. It's very hard to like bias just your vastus lateralis muscle. I know there's a little bit of research with, I believe, step ups and like leg press. I think you might bias a little bit more than something like a leg extension.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think, it's pretty hard to really just bias the speed. There's no way. I mean, if your genetics are like that, if your tendon is, is there, you can't grow your tendon, your muscle belly is just there.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, yeah, so there will always be that gap, but like I'm it always. Yeah, there's no way around it. What would you say about our? Your calves? Yeah, calves are definitely not.
Speaker 2:Not a strong stage, but yeah, like it's.
Speaker 1:I feel like they're one muscle.
Speaker 2:They're okay, but they're one muscle group that I feel like haven't really improved a lot yeah you're not the only one. Yeah, since I've been bodybuilding, Like I think that's another one that I got to really try to emphasize on, especially for competing as a pro, because, like, if it's super close right there, they're going to look at those calves and if, if they're- not there, then yeah, you could be placed down one right, so yeah that's okay, but I mean from from just your men's physique back pose.
Speaker 1:I'm just looking back at colonna now let's just talk about. Just talk a little bit about, uh, about what you, what you've mentioned before, um, your, your chest or your clavicle-wise. I agree with some of the things that you did mention. Your anterior delts are very, very well developed and I think you suffer something very close to what another influencer that we may talk about is. Your chest is not as dominant as the rest of your body. We're not sure if it's just the length of your clavicle or it's just how your muscles likes to be built. The chest is a little bit more flatter compared to the rest of the body. Yes, your abs are extremely dominant. Your obliques are extremely dominant. Your lats actually are pretty well developed too. It kind of wraps around into the front so you can actually see your lats actually look pretty well developed too. It kind of wraps around into the front so you can actually see your lats actually pop up and around into your serratus, which is very rare.
Speaker 1:And you've got a lot of very good detail in your back. It comes out, it pops out at us. Your insertion, for your lats are actually quite high. So there's this big gap between your hip into the bottom of your lats which pops up, which is very, very nice. It gives a lot of detail. Under your uh, under your your rear delts and your traps actually pop up at us a lot. Calves are pretty decent. So I would say your uh, your back pose, is one of your stronger suits, as well as your side pose, uh, for men's physique.
Speaker 2:So that's uh, that's pretty much what I have to basically assess yeah, with the post, like I posted up when I had my arms, like no hand on hip, I feel like that looks so much better for me. But then when I do put that hand on hip, I think with just that a little bit of tightness in the shoulder, probably tightness in like the external rotator cuff muscles, that it kind of folds over a little bit like I did notice when I looked at the photos like it just doesn't look quite as um symmetrical when I have that hand on hip. I guess most people it doesn't look perfectly symmetrical, yeah, but that's definitely one that I gotta work on and just make sure that I can get those lats up, get those delts to pop, because like my, I feel like my delts pop so much more when I can have them both up like that.
Speaker 1:But when I have that one hand on hip, that shoulder just starts to fade away a little bit yeah, it's uh, it's normal, because once you took that one hand on hip, it it messes up your shoulder from your left and right arm and that's kind of now it messes it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's also the hardest part in ywmbf once you have one hand on hip, uh, it could. It could be a lot of other reasons as well, but that's uh, that's one of the things that it's it's hard to pull off. That's going back to pretty much that's your, your physique, and from what we talked about for men's physique then, and what the criteria is. I mean, criteria is one thing, but looking at it as a whole is probably another. Uh, I would say that you will have, you know, pretty elite and genetics for the sport. I would consider you you having the pretty good genetics in one thing um, at least your capitals are not like extremely, extremely short, that you have very narrow shoulders and, yeah, I guess the only thing that you might be right is about your torso might just be a little bit wider.
Speaker 2:But it's not the end of the world, you'll still be able to pull off a pretty good taper. But yeah, I think with a slight twist too, I find sometimes it works well. But I know when we were practicing on the day before, like sometimes it almost seems like my lats don't pop as much if I have too much of that twist. So, it's always a fine balance with it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think you do a pretty good job in hiding that stuff and I think this is something that we want to talk about. Is posing is also one way of to talk about. Is posing is also one way of I wouldn't say, hide away from your weaknesses, but it definitely can help in creating an illusion that your weaknesses aren't really there through through a lot of practice imposing. That's also why we preach it quite a bit. Now I'm almost the exact opposite from what you are. So the photos came back, by the way, from Edmonton and I'm actually quite happy with it. Yeah, I haven't posted it, I didn't get a chance to post about it, but then I'm pretty happy about it, about the whole package that we brought to Edmonton Definitely a lot fuller. Now I'm the exact opposite, meaning that I don't have as much mass in the midsection. However, the thing is like I have.
Speaker 1:One of the comments was I have a very good shoulder to waist ratio, so the taper is pretty good. I just don't have a very good shoulder to waist ratio, so the taper is is pretty good. I just don't have a lot of depth, so chest wise, I think I struggle same thing as you. I don't have the longest clavicle. It just it pops out width wise quite a bit for me. So the only thing I struggle with is just a lot of depth in my in my body and I have no traps.
Speaker 1:My calves and my traps in my arms are the three major components that actually never grow. They're very, very stubborn Arms that were always one of the since 2022. That was always one of the weaknesses and calves said they said they were okay, then it could do a little bit. I think calves everybody struggles with, like all dudes that I know. They struggle with the calves like the most self-conscious thing ever. My lat, my, I think my lats don't? They go pretty low into my butt, um, so I have a. I have a harder time actually building that depth and that detail. When I hit my back post, my rear dubs are huge and I don't know if it's just poor training technique or it's just genetically growing that way man like your, your taper from the back is insane.
Speaker 2:Though, like you, echo, especially with your waist being so small, like that taper is like really really good on you from the back. Like, yeah, if you can get some more density with, like your, your lats and everything, um, I think that's gonna really really show for you on on the pro stage man yeah, I hope so too.
Speaker 1:I hope so too. Yeah, my legs, uh, let's not talk about that.
Speaker 2:Um then, I don't think I've actually ever seen you like. Have you hit like a front relax, pose and side relax and like a side um chest?
Speaker 1:pose I don't know if I've ever had. I just don't do it on camera because I feel like your legs aren't like for like your whole proportion.
Speaker 2:I feel like they're not like super small compared to like your upper body and stuff. Like I feel like I don't know like I haven't seen like all the photos and stuff, like with doing like front double by, back double by, but I I'd be curious to see how it flows. Yeah, in the future, are you gonna do classic? Now like you just gotta hop in for classic, let's see, let's see um, yeah, yeah, because I was.
Speaker 1:I was pretty happy to place second um for opens men's physique, and that actually caught me by surprise that, having just zero expectations that we talked about last time, um, but I am curious to see if I will be able to place well in opens men's physique first, before you know, really putting on those tiny trunks. Um, there is one weakness about my legs is actually not only my legs but my entire body is. All my tendons are super long. You can just tell by my biceps, the extreme gap between my elbows and the peak of my biceps. So all my tendons are like that my calves, my quads, my adductors. Even so, when I have a longer board shorts, it's like I never trained legs before. Longer board shorts, it's like I never trained legs before. Yeah, yeah. So that's yeah, those are.
Speaker 2:Those are some of the you know unfortunate things, uh, that I I know with, with. For me, like, if I have my feet more flared out, I can kind of almost hide that gap a little bit with the quad, yeah, with the knee kind of angled out, yeah. And then I took biceps too. I have a bit of a gap there, but if you kind of point in a little bit, you can kind of hide that gap with your biceps. So see that now Three fingers in there, I got two. If you rotate in like that, how does it?
Speaker 1:And then I have no biceps.
Speaker 2:Okay, If you have your wrist pointing straight forward.
Speaker 1:It's not bad, it's still tiny. Well, mass is going to be something that we'll continue to actually work on, but obviously, between me and you, I think you will have more the visual signs of elite genetics compared to what I have Longer torso for me, shorter limbs. I actually have shorter legs. My arms are actually a little bit longer than my legs are in proportion, so maybe I'm built differently for another sport. Who knows?
Speaker 2:I think isn't swimming the one where you want really long arms and like a shorter legs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so maybe I'll try that. I might find success that way there you go yeah, so between me and you, we've done, we've done quite a bit of um. You know our, our genetic and our genetic limitations, um, but let's talk about who has, like, very good genetics, like we could talk about other bodybuilders, if you have in mind. We have talked about influencers who've like got really illy genetics well, do you have anybody in mind?
Speaker 2:the guy, what's the name of the guy that won the wmbf worlds in bodybuilding? Uh, this past year do?
Speaker 1:you remember last year, not this year? Worlds right, or I guess?
Speaker 2:yeah, it would have been last year because it happens in what yeah, so this year hasn't happened yet yeah, so last year because it happens in what? November 8th? Yeah, so this year hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so last year. I know his name is Brian, but I don't know what's Brian, what Brian Tecosta?
Speaker 2:No, I think that was the guy the year before, the guy last year. I don't even know how you pronounce that. It's N-I-A-N-G. Like this guy here, n-i-a-n-g, g like this guy here. And I a? N? G? Wait, where are you showing me um just on here. Oh, that guy, yeah, he like I would say for genetics, like he has like the top of the top, kind of like ronnie coleman genetics, like you could probably compare him to like a natural ronnie coleman, because I know when ronnie coleman first started competing he was natty and everybody thought he was in half and then when he started taking stuff, then he just freaking, blew up yeah, he's got.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can see he's got very elite genetics. Uh, I don't want to, I don't want to make it racist and call it a race thing. Um, he's got very thick, dense muscles. He's got very long um clavicles. Uh, yeah, he's just, he's got the whole package, his upper and lower body, but just balances up very, very nicely yeah, yeah, like he nice thing back for him too.
Speaker 2:It's such a small waist, such a yeah, wide clavicles, but he's got like tree trunks for legs. His chest is very full, like a lot of times when you see guys, like a lot of guys will have like the very wide clavicles, but sometimes their chest won't be quite as big, they'll have big delts, but like for him, it's just there's so much balance with his physique that it's just yeah it's unreal, like it's crazy yeah I can't.
Speaker 1:I can't pronounce his name either, so I have no idea what it is, um, but yeah, so that that's a really yeah, that's a really good specimen on what we talk about, on having really really legit elite genetics. But let's talk a little bit about more, uh, more other well-known uh influencers that you know, I would say the majority of population will know um. First up on the list david late. Are you familiar with david late?
Speaker 1:yeah yeah, so david late, yeah, what would you give your um, what would you say his um, his physique would be?
Speaker 2:I'm gonna actually pull up a picture of him just so I can. I know the guy. He's got really good midsection. He's got like that crazy taper. Yeah, I'm just trying to pull it up so I can yeah.
Speaker 1:So he's got a very, very tiny waist.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, very tiny waist, really good genetics, really good chest. I've never I don't know if I've actually seen his legs have you have?
Speaker 1:you seen his legs before? Uh, no, but let me pull up some pictures. So, david laid, let's see, let's look. Yeah, I would say his legs are, oh, he's got uh. Oh, if we look at this picture right here well, I'm just looking at this picture and from his instagram he's also got very. He's got like tiny bit longer. Uh, tendons on his lower body and his abductors are also just like mine. They're relatively high, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I would say that his legs or his body type, is very similar to the more skinny and leaner type. He's got very wide. He's got a really tiny waist. His ribs are just tiny and his he said he managed to have a really long clavicle, so his waist and shoulder ratio is insane. I would say his legs and upper body does match, isn't? He's not, you know, overly skinny legs. He does train them, but yeah, he's. Yeah, this is another, I think, a really good specimen on what we say a really really good gen ed. He's a. This is another, I think, a really good specimen on what we say a really really good gen ed.
Speaker 2:He's a very tall, usually has like longer limbs, but maybe he's an exception yeah, like I think for him like in, like if he was to compete I don't know if he's actually ever competed, I don't remember hearing him. I don't remember either I feel like men's physique. He's got like a really good taper for he does. I would say bodybuilding or classic physique, he'd probably still do quite well. He'll do well in classic physique, but I think yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1:I think men's physique is definitely something right down his alley. Yeah, yeah, that's probably one of them. David Leight is a really good specimen. Jeff said no, that's a good one, jeff said Jeff, that's a good one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jeff said, a very similar body type as david laid, I would say, but he's much thicker. Yeah, because he. I think he tried doing classic recently like did you, did you see the videos of him um competing? I think they're pretty recently, a couple months ago. Yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So I would say he did. He fits the criteria. I would say he does fit the criteria of classic physique. I would say that he did a lot of really good development over the past year, past years in his offseason, when he didn't compete. I think he's put on a good, decent amount of mass. I would say he does with his shape and with his tendons and his muscle bellies. I think he does well, he will do well, in both categories. Now, I wouldn't say his chest is flatter, but I would say his, um, his chest is not as dominant as David laid. So between the two of them I would much prefer the, the whole structure of david laid from. You know, a very impressive muscle gain from skinny base. Him I don't think he's, he I don't think, uh, jeff said, has come from a skinny base. I wouldn't say so. I think he's more of a very similar body type as you.
Speaker 2:So yeah, he's yeah, he's kind of like that typical jock in high school where he's got a decent amount of size just from doing sports. For me, I was actually quite skinny when I first started, but I responded really well to training in the first couple years and then it started to slow down quite rapidly. But yeah, I think he's quite similar from that standpoint yeah, because he doesn't have like super long tendons.
Speaker 2:He's it's typical mesomorph, I would say for just said I think another thing too with having extremely wide like clavicles is that like your pecs are going to have to go out across like a larger surface area. So to have a big chest like you need um, like more muscle in that area, versus somebody that has a very small clavicle, like, um. I feel like they generally have like a pretty dense chest just because, like there's it's such a short area that um muscle is in, so like even if you don't have much, it kind of pops out a bit more whereas if you have like a very long clavicle, like there's a longer distance between the insertion um and the origin um.
Speaker 2:I find, especially with like super tall people, right like for them to add a lot of muscle, it just takes them a lot of time to like really add that yeah um, so I think that's another thing, that's it's good to have very wide clavicles, but I feel like it does take a little bit more time to fully fill out your chest yeah, so what would you say?
Speaker 1:the like, those two, uh, I think those two that we just talked about, david laid and jeff said I think they're more. We started from the skinny base and then I think jeff said is a, I think I would. Would you still consider him to be more of a skinny base or would you consider him as more of a medium one?
Speaker 2:he would probably be still slightly on that skinnier side, just because I find most people that generally if they don't work out, they're quite skinny, like it's very hard for them to put on like you can put on muscle, but it's very hard to put on like a lot of body fat as well, like you. For I feel, like a lot of us, when we are starting on the skinny side, eating is usually the issue for putting on muscle. It's not really like the training like we're usually like, especially if we're training consistently, um, we're able to push hard and stuff, but it's just getting enough food in to create that surplus to continue adding more tissue. That's usually the hardest thing, whereas individuals, um, that there's like individuals on the opposite where, like they can put on weight like super easy, um, they generally put on muscle quite easy too, but when it comes to taking off the body fat, um, that's a little bit more difficult.
Speaker 2:For them their body fights a little bit more, since they have, like a higher body fat set point um.
Speaker 1:So there's always that positive, positives and negatives of both sides yeah, which which really you which really brings up to our next contender. It's very difficult for us to our body to respond on where we want the muscles to actually grow. So our next contestant here not contestant, our next guy is Tristan Lee and he pretty much, you know, not lean year-round. He's got a very competitive physique at your very young age, I think was like what, 15, 16 year old now. Yeah, just by looking his visit, he's working with, I think, jared feather now and he's put on like a good amount of size, and Greg to second made a video on him, his transformation within like a very short 10 months, which we're not going to talk about. But I think his, I think the one of bigger things on him is he. He's just naturally got a very flat chest. Would you consider him elite genetics or?
Speaker 2:yeah, like he. Because like yeah, like he holds a very lean physique year-round. Even when he was bulking it didn't look like he put on that much body fat during even his bulk. But yeah, I think he's definitely a hyper-responder when it comes to muscle growth. He can gain a lot of muscle compared to the average individual. They probably would gain maybe half the amount of muscle that he usually he can put on um, but he he is also smaller.
Speaker 2:So, like um, the origin and the insertions are a lot closer. So a lot of times these individuals that are shorter and stockier um, they tend to just look very dense um, and that's why you see a lot of these bodybuilders on the IFBB stage where they're actually quite short. If you stand next to them they're shorter, I would say, than the average person, but they're so wide and so thick and so dense. So I think there's an advantage, just from a standpoint, of just having that density when you are on that shorter side um, just due to those muscle insertions and origins being so much closer together. I think he's kind of one of those individuals, like if he was to like hop on gear um and like, try to compete as an ifbb pro, like. I feel like he would probably be able to get extremely dense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just the. The thickness of his chest just wouldn't grow. Sides are just gonna look at just a tiny bit Weaker. It's quite larger as well. So for sure, you know, I would consider, I would say his. You know, men's physique is definitely not really up his alley. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, bodybuilding, or I'm not sure about classic physique, consider, I would say his. You know, men's physique is definitely not really up his alley. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, bodybuilding, or I'm not sure about classic physique. I think bodybuilding would be something that he'll be, he'll fit better with. He's got like a very thick and huge back, which I think that's, uh, that's his very strong. So his legs are very, very well developed. Uh, his arms, his delts and everything is just just his chest is just very stubborn it's likely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a genetic thing for him, like I wonder. I haven't really seen him train too much, but yeah, he's under Jeff.
Speaker 1:Um Jared Federer yeah oh, he managed to do. Uh, he managed to accomplish that pretty well uh, by himself just doing those gym bro training. Then, I think, over the past year or year and a half he he joined the team rp and he made, uh, very significant changes with just a good tempo training and just very basic things that we consider we do natural bodybuilding wise, we just the quality of every rep, uh, load management, volume management and just the technique wise, and he made some significant improvements.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, good for him one thing too that I noticed with rpe or rp um is with their chest training they really, really encourage an extreme arch with the back and try to not pump the chest up as much as humanly possible. I do notice, because what I've been doing lately I think we chatted about this a couple of podcasts ago is just having a flatter back when pressing and keeping the ribs slightly down and more stable, and I've been noticing my chest has been getting a lot more sore than usual, but I used to change chest the same way that they kind of promote it with trying to arch as much as you can, pull shoulder blades as far back as you can and really focus on just getting as much of a range motion as possible at the bottom.
Speaker 2:and like I found that doing it the way I'm doing currently, like especially um closer to like my sternum, like I've noticed, like um, I've been getting a lot more sore here compared to in like more of the um, like the attachment to your humerus, like I've been getting quite a sort of like in that range, in that portion of my, my fibers.
Speaker 2:So like that's where I'm thinking, like if I'm the way I'm training right now, I don't know if it's actually possible to actually well, I think because wasn't there some research on like training in the length and position may cause greater growth in the length of position. Um may cause greater growth in the distal and the proximal.
Speaker 2:Like this I always I keep getting those ones mixed up is distal, the one that's still like yeah, this still is this one proximal yeah, okay, yeah, so like the short by stuff would they would say they theorize that it may cause more hypertrophy more proximal, whereas, like, training in a longer length may cause more hypertrophy in more distal fibers. So like that's where I'm thinking, like if the way I'm training right now, if it's leading to a bit more of a short and biased range of motion which may potentially create a little bit more thickness closer to the sternum, this is always like, like a theory, but like I don't know if that's something that you you've ever thought about, or yes, yes, I, I sort of listened to a very similar research they were talking about, but it's not for the chest.
Speaker 1:There's very little. There's very little research for upper body, just just due to the muscles are smaller and there's just a lot more other muscles that take part in it. So they did it for the hamstrings and the. The hamstrings one I think is is what I listened to is when the lengthened versus the shortened part of it and they saw much more growth at lengthened for but yeah, you're right, for the distal version of the lengthened of the hamstring, they saw a lot of bit more growth. And that's why they were talking about the seated leg curl and the lying leg curl differences and what RDL was doing and what was the point of the RDL. And that was the article that I was listening to. But yeah, then then you're, you're right, the concept of theory of the lengthened is more distal. That creates more tension there, and that's that's what I think was a very similar training aspect.
Speaker 2:Cause I think, with like same with the lats, they haven't done any tests really on the lats. Same with the lats, they haven't done any uh tests really not for the lats, no I don't think even for the bicep, yes, bicep yeah, yeah, the biceps, the triceps, I believe they have.
Speaker 1:I don't think they have for the delts, no or maybe yeah, there's just too much, I think they might have done one for the delts with the making it more length advice versus just a regular dumbbell.
Speaker 2:Was it the bench press one? I think there was one on cable ladder raises versus dumbbell ladder raises and they found the same muscle hypertrophy. I don't know if they checked the region of the delt where they saw more growth, the one by Mano. I would have to look into that one. What know if they checked, like, the region of the delta where they saw more growth, the one by man or business in the same area. But yeah, I would have to look at that more. What I would have to look at that more yeah, I think it's the one by mano.
Speaker 1:I think, uh, I can't be 100, sure. Then I just remember rpa was talking, just talking about that. It was just harder, like where the tension was higher between the dumbbell and the and the cable lateral raise. Um, just, I think there's just a profile differences, I think, and then at the end of the day, you know, they just tell you.
Speaker 2:Oh, you guys just go do both.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about one more genetic freak um somebody very dear to us will tennyson yeah yeah, he's one dense dude like I think he's one of those guys that just like to put on muscle isn't as much of an issue, um, it's more. Pulling off the body fat requires a greater degree of discipline, just due to his legs just taking their sweet time for the body fat to come off and like the suffering required to get his legs very conditioned. I see that in a lot of people like, even like Tappy, like he has so much density, but it seems like the legs, like, especially like the glutes and hamstring area, it's just requires like a more significant amount of effort to get that last little bit off, which for most people it does require a lot of effort. But I do notice, with some really big dance guys, especially if they're more what's your? What is that?
Speaker 2:My brain is not working today because you got your ectomorph, you got your mesomorph. Isn't the mesomorph? It's like the jaw endomorph. Is that endo? Isn't the endomorph? Like the people that are just they like I know that these um things aren't like proven or anything but um, the endomorph isn't that the person that's like naturally more like has a higher body fat level? Yeah, there's, there's like three different ones right me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ecto is the skinny me. And then there's mesomorph, which is you, and then there's the endomorph. Who's the the thick one?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, because they, they, generally I find they don't quote unquote they would say like, don't feel as much muscle, they hold on to more body fat. I do find the mesomorphs, um, sometimes to get extremely to the elite conditioning have a hard time. But the ectomorphs can get to the elite level conditioning a little bit easier, though they don't have as much density. So, yeah, like it's, it's always interesting. But if you're the quote-unquote endomorph which I don't, that's like like you can change what you are, kind of in a way like if somebody was quite overweight, you can get to a point where you look more like a mesomorph right.
Speaker 2:So I would say, don't base your training off of, or your dieting and all that based off of which one you are right.
Speaker 1:So I agree and honestly for Will. You are right. So I agree and honestly for for will. I got a privilege to see him in person at the vancouver show. Uh, I would say he's a, he's a very. He's a taller dude and he's like what I think he's your hat, what six foot or six foot one or something like that. He's rather thick. He's got very full muscle bellies. I would say his, his tendons aren't that long. I wouldn. I can't say they're not that long, they're very similar to yours. He's actually got a very similar body type as yours. I would say he's just taller. He's bigger. Yeah, he's bigger, I think it's just his clavicles are just longer, so his chest and delts just pops out a little bit wider. But I think mass-wise I don't think you're really that much different from him. Well, do you? Do you know how?
Speaker 2:much he was on stage.
Speaker 1:No body weight he did talk about it. I don't remember. He talked about it on his uh in his youth on the youtube. I think it was like 170 ish pounds I I think so. He's a very similar body weight as when you did.
Speaker 2:Okay. I still think if I was to compete against him, he would still destroy me yeah, from the I would say from the back pose.
Speaker 1:I think you guys are very competitive on both. He's his backs. His back pose is also one of his stronger suits. Yeah, now, this this was only his first time. I think over a period of time, if he got more practice, got on stage more with more stage experience, I think, yeah, you'll have a challenge, but I think otherwise he's got very, very full muscle bodies lower body and his upper body. His upper body is just. His chest is just. It pops out so much naturally and I think that's a really good advantage that he has, that it builds his shoulder and waist. That X-frame is just built so much better. So I would yeah, I would consider him to have an insane aesthetic frame, very impressive X-frame. Not, he doesn't really have a lot of those long limbs that usually tall guys have to go through.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that's something that I would say he's one fine specimen. Yeah, man, well, I think, with more experiencing or more experience in like going through a craft and stuff, and like he gets his legs completely peeled, like he'll be like I think he'll do well even at like the world stage man like oh, yeah, it's just, yeah, he's just gonna. But it's that's one thing about getting that condition like even for me, like I've I've gotten quite conditioned where I've got like faint, uh glute striations but nothing like dug out, and I know like the suffering required to get to really dug out glutes is, um, something that it takes experience, time, slowly getting there over time and it's usually not going to happen in your first, uh, one or two perhaps.
Speaker 2:It's going to probably take like five years of competing to be able to get to get to those levels yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what would you say that? Um, now we've talked about like very good genetics, as we talked about a couple of those case studies, and then we've talked about like very good genetics, as we talked about a couple of those case studies, and then we've talked about, you know, not so great genetics and some flaws that we, we struggle with. Do you think you can out train our sort of bad genetics?
Speaker 2:I, I think you can slowly make them, make them look less bad so like well, like again, like I don't think necessarily you have like terrible genetics, but I think it's just like from a muscle, like how much muscle mass your body can hold, or like you're able to put on muscle, like that's where I think your genetics probably aren't quite as good. But like your actual frame, like you're, you have very good balance with your physique. You have a very good V taper with men's physique. Like if you just simply can add more tissue to that, I think you'll do very well.
Speaker 2:Um, but um, yeah, in terms of changing, like I've seen, a lot of guys with very thick hips um for compete men's physique and still be able to do quite well just by manipulating, posing, and just continue to add to their delts, to their lats, and to really just continue to emphasize it, I do think if, like, you're trying to be at the top of the top, like the pro stage, world stage, like poor genetics, unfortunately you're probably not going to get to that level.
Speaker 2:I do think if you have poor genetics, there's still a possibility of getting a pro card, like even like steve hall. Like he, he doesn't have the best genetics but he's got the work ethic he's put. I think he's been training for about a decade maybe even longer now as well and like he's been super consistent with it um trains really hard, progressive overload, um. He gets really into the research with this podcast and the amount of knowledge he has. Like he's continuing to try to improve and he's made substantial changes even with not the best genetics. So I do think you can, even with, like poor genetics, still get to a pretty decent level in natural bodybuilding. It's just I don't think you'll ever be the top of the top with for genetics just because there's going to be the guy at the top of the top that works just as hard that his diet's on point, his training's on point, um.
Speaker 1:So there's just no way that you're going to be able to beat somebody like that so how would you say that if everybody's doing the same thing, everybody's training hard, everybody's dining hard, so anybody who stands on steps on stage will go through the same thing, what would you know?
Speaker 2:Uh, your, you know say, quote unquote genetic ceiling is so and that's one thing that you it's very hard to know when you hit it Cause, like so so many people, especially guys that are taking steroids, like because like so so many people especially, guys that are taking steroids, like oh, like you only can gain muscle for like three years, naturally, and then you hit your laments.
Speaker 2:You might as well hop on. It's like that's not the case. Like you see it time after time, especially with, like team 3dmj, with steve hall, with all these guys where they're adding still adding tissue though yeah, it's 100% gonna slow down, um, but I've never actually seen it hit like I. Even jeff alberts, like I don't know, maybe this year when he competes he might not look quite as good like he. He might be getting like that top tier might have slightly ducked under again. But like there's so many things that you can do so, like like, did jeff alberts train completely optimal? Like do everything in his possible power? Like he was stuck with a very, very long time. He's like so it's, I don't know, it's so hard to know. Like there's it's almost impossible to know if you've actually hit your genetic ceiling. So, yeah, you can maybe theorize that you're getting close, but I don't know, I don't think it's possible to know.
Speaker 1:You're absolutely right. And 3DM that's possible to know, you're absolutely right. And um 3dmj, I think even especially the jeff alberts, he talked about it a lot. He talks about it in most of the podcasts that they produce. In 3dmj he's been training for what what? 30, 40 years now. It's his first bodybuilding show when he was very young, in his mid, early, like mid 20s or late 20s is his first bodybuilding and he's still competing until now. He's what?
Speaker 2:50 something now yeah, I think he's like 54 or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah so well into 30 years of competing my math. But then, and he still says like he, I think there was one episode when jeff and eric and I don't know who else they were talking, and then they were saying that he maybe hasn't reached his genetic ceiling because you'll never know, but you will peak, your body will peak at a certain age when you step on stage and you you might not do well in that particular show in your peak, but it varies every, every single show. So I think you made a really good point is a lot of individuals who who wants to buy time and they don't want to put 30 years of their life into bodybuilding just to reach potentially, potentially, their peak and they just hop on PEDs. Now there's something that I probably will bring up if, if they do hop on peds, will that erase the genetic deficits?
Speaker 2:it's a disadvantage no no, no, yeah, like you're still gonna have the same structure. You're still gonna have probably the same or like so somebody if they don't have like the best response to training. Some people are like high responders. Some people are like low responders to resistance training. If you're a low responder to resistance training and you hop on gear, you're likely gonna still be a low responder to the gear.
Speaker 2:So you might just look like an average or like one of like getting closer to like what an average natural bodybuilder looks like when you are hopping on gear. So I I don't think that's a good idea. If you're going based off of a gap, portion X I'm just gonna hop on steroids. Then I'm gonna look like this you're gonna be like that's, that's not going to happen and like, yeah, so even get an IPV pro cord, especially if you're not putting in as much work, and you're just thinking gear is gonna give you it. Like that, that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2:So a lot of people try to take that shortcut and usually the people especially the ones that just start training and try to hop on gear right away they're the ones that don't have these habits built yet. They're the ones that don't really understand muscle growth or understand nutrition, understand proper, like sleep hygiene and all this stuff. So they take this gear and a lot of these guys look worse than a lot of natural bodybuilders. So it's like, yeah, it's, I don't know, it just blows my mind sometimes with how some people.
Speaker 1:I just want to take this, yeah, but then here's another, here's another subjective manner. Um, I know the answer is probably it does depend on the individual. But now let's not, let's just shy away from bodybuilding. First, because bodybuilding is something that we majority, we talk about and we actually did touch base a lot on if hopping on PDs just to achieve a better outcome on the stage, if you know if it's worth chasing. Now, we talked about this before, so we're not gonna go into. But would you think if it's worth hopping on gear just to chase a physique, a dream physique that you can't possibly achieve naturally? So meaning that you're in, let's say, a beach body, but with just more mass. You're not really hopping a lot of gear, uh, just to step on stage, but you just want to chase a physique that you know it's not naturally possible for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like like my thoughts around that, like I still think like give it a shot, like naturally, see, like try to do all the things right first and just like, see, because, like a lot of times, you'll get a lot further than you think you can if you just start doing the right things and do the do the right habits. See, because, like a lot of times, you'll get a lot further than you think you can if you just start doing the right things and do the do the right habits.
Speaker 2:Um, because, like, if you don't like if say you think, oh, like steroids is going to be the thing to get you to like this physique that you want a lot of times the physique.
Speaker 2:When you say, for example, even if you get that physique, you, that you want, but then, like, your health tanks a little bit because of, like the steroids that you're using and have other side effects, um, like it's, it's like getting to that physique isn't going to be the thing that just makes you happy, all of a sudden, like there's usually something oh, you want a little bit more. Like you get to that physique and all that physician are longer, good enough, you want something better. And then it just spirals into taking more and more stuff.
Speaker 2:But like with steroids there is still some level of work that you have to do to build that physique. Like there is some research showing that even if you take steroids and not do anything, you'll gain muscle and especially in like hyper responders to it. But like that's still probably only going to get you to like the average-looking gym physique if you're taking steroids and not working out. If you want to get to that amazing physique or not amazing, but a good beach-level physique there's still going to be some effort required from your nutrition from your training to get there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's definitely so.
Speaker 1:In other words, we're just saying that the work is the same. Um, I would even say that the work is much harder. If you are even on peds, it's much, much harder than you can do naturally. Naturally, we still have a little bit more leeway because we're doing this. Naturally we can have the option in uh, let's say, dieting a little bit more flexibly. We get exposure to a lot more different micronutrients and macronutrients.
Speaker 1:When you're on PEDs, you're really putting your body through a very harsh time, so your nutrition has got to be even more sharp. You have to take care of your body even more, so there's going to be a lot of supplementation there there's going to be. Your diet is going to have to be even sharper, so there's a lot of limitations on food choices If you don't want to mess up your body. There's also acne, and you know there's also this other downsides to it. Now, I'm not saying that you have to hop on like a whole shit ton of gear. Some gears are just have a very minimal effect.
Speaker 1:As you says, who, depending on if you're a fast responder or slow responder. Now you're going to have to test that out. But, in other words, what we're saying is naturally. You have a lot more leeway and there's also there's a time frame Now for natural bodybuilding. There is almost no end on how far you can actually take your body. You can see Jeff Alberberts. He's a very good example. He's doing, but for 30, 30 plus years now and he's still doing it and he's still growing. You see a little bit more growth every single probably year or even two years. So maybe one would say your advice would be if someone were to quote unquote test their body naturally. What's a good timeframe?
Speaker 2:To like see how, like when you would hit your like limit, like when you would, or your gains will probably slow down. Yeah, so I would say, like the first five years you're going to be making like the most progress a hundred percent in terms of muscle growth. After that you'll get some diminishing returns, but it's just going to start to slow down over time. Um, one thing, though, that I noticed is, like the more advanced I get, the more things I kind of experiment with, and if I experiment with something like I'll see a little bit more growth or exponential growth during a certain time frame where I start doing that thing.
Speaker 2:So I do think albert anuna has talked about this too where there's going to be phases in your training where you see quite large progress and there's going to be different, uh, phases where you don't see quite as much, you're stalling out, maybe you're dealing with a little nagging injury where it's just a little bit slower, but so it's going to be a little bit more up and down rather than just like straight, straight, linear, um, or like where it's like kind of coming off and flattening out like, I feel like it's still going to be have some bumps in the road, uh, when it comes to the progress uh.
Speaker 2:But yeah, like for somebody, like naturally, yeah, the first five years is definitely going to be where you're seeing the most out of your training over the course of 10 years, um, it started to slow down a bit more and then, once you get into like 20 years, I'm sure so just hold on a little bit more, um, and then like 30 years, like that's probably where you are getting, especially if you're kind of staying up to date with the research, doing like everything. Uh, quite well, uh, that's probably where you're gonna notice. Okay, like if I can gain like one pound of muscle mass in a year, like that's pretty crazy. So like, yeah, like 30 years is probably going to. I would say for most people it's going to be like keg. You might be able to make some change, but it's going to be very, very small. Yeah, I agree, very, very small.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, but yeah, so what we're just trying to say is just give it at least five years, at least five years in order to think about hopping on anything at all. If you've been training more than five years, we would suggest you look into other training aspects or variations, like play around, talk to other people you know, train with us to see if we could change your mind. Then you know, before actually hopping into that, into going down that road, we're not 100% against it, but we're just more confident in what you can achieve more naturally. So we have our bias, you can say that. But going back to what this episode was actually about, it's just genetics is. Something we always preach is now bodybuilding, and something is is a very big thing that we like to compare each other from others. Now, you can't compare your genetics to others, because there's just no comparison. You're born that way. We just want to make this very clear that, uh, try not to compare yourself. It's a very dangerous road, so let's not try to go there. Focus on how we can just help you in being just the best version of yourself. That's basically what we all can ask.
Speaker 1:But we've talked about a good couple of case studies. We've talked about will. We've talked about tristan. We've talked about who else we talked about. We talked about david laid. We've talked about jeff said. So we've talked about people like in the game who's got really, really good genetics.
Speaker 1:So I encourage you to leave in the comment section, or just dms, who do you think has the best genetics in the game? We would like to, we'd like to know on uh, who you guys think of it. Let's say, natural or non-natural, it doesn't matter. You know, I would like, we would like to see it. Comment down below. If you dms some photos, if you want, if you want us to assess you know what your, what your potential may be, we're more than happy to do that. But what we're just trying to also add is just yes, genetics does matter in bodybuilding, but consistently. The work ethic, and I think that matters for what we're trying. What was brandon is just trying to say it's just focal and controllables. You know, your, your training, you have to be consistent. Your diet has to be consistent. Your mindset has got to be just in the right spot.
Speaker 2:You want to be absolutely like perfect, like with body, like you want to play it for the long game. Like body, the natural body building is, you have to be in it for the long game. So there are times where you kind of dial it, switch up, and there's times where you dial it back a little bit just so you can keep going throughout. If you're trying to be absolutely perfect your whole 30 years, you'll likely burn out in those first five, six years and have a hard time getting back into it. So I find having like that little dial switch, so like time periods, especially in prep, like dialing right up, um in your off season, like if you have like a deload or if you have like a week off or something, pulling back a little bit, it's totally fine. But just being consistent throughout, like making sure that you're not going like months without training, um, going just months, like having super low protein and stuff, like no you can get muscle back quite quick with like muscle memory.
Speaker 2:With all their scientific research around that like definitely a. Thing but I would, yeah, try to stay as consistent as possible. Yeah. Yeah, but before we wrap this up, is there anything else you want to add? No, man, I think that's everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we did a pretty good, pretty good episode here, but so you guys liked the episode. Please remember to like, subscribe and share. Follow us on Instagram and subscribe to us on YouTube. Leave us a comment on anywhere on YouTube or on the comment section below. As we talked about any good genetics and athletes that you know in the game, we're more than happy to share and follow us on IG, and that will be all for today. Thanks for tuning in, guys. We'll see you guys next time. See you guys, thank you.