Lifting Nerds
Adrian Ma and Brandon Emslie share discussions and interviews with the fitness community's best science-based researchers and coaches.
Lifting Nerds
S3E11: Managing Your Mind When Someone Stronger Steps on Stage
We explore the psychological aspects of bodybuilding competition, from managing expectations to building friendships with competitors, and share our personal journeys to achieving pro cards in the WNBF.
• Managing comparison with other competitors through social media
• How low expectations can lead to better competitive outcomes
• The importance of maintaining composure during stage positioning
• Building supportive relationships instead of rivalries backstage
• The journey becomes easier with each competition experience
• The value of starting prep early to avoid rushing into conditioning
• How posing coaching and experience contribute to competitive success
If you're thinking of competing this year, the Calgary show is about 15 weeks out, so now is the time to start preparing. DM us with any questions or topics you'd like us to cover in future episodes.
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@_adrianma
@brandonemslie
Yeah, so let's. So you say you're just gonna put it on the thing behind you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I'll see, like I'll play around with it. Like I get the pro card, I could definitely just tape up back there and just like, have his like tape. That I don't think it's gonna hold the support. Yeah, yeah, the tapes not gonna hold the sword, so might be a good nail or something and then just have it kind of sitting On it. But then we also probably want to put Emma's sword up there. So make like a.
Speaker 1:Oh shit, right. Oh yeah, that's a. That's a good idea. Now there's a. There's a wall to your right. If your thing is not flipped, if your camera's not flipped, wait yeah you're right, you're right side, yeah, yeah yeah, I think closer to the closet I can see a bit of the wall, so I don't know if you want to put it there yeah, that can work too.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't know, we'll play around. I still have, like, the thing where I can hold all my trophies on it.
Speaker 1:Oh, that rack I know, I know that rack. Uh, I remember you having it in the, in the old apartment where you have hanged all your metals. I think that thing is like really, really cool. You still haven't hung that up yet.
Speaker 2:No, well, we've been just kind of like, yeah, we've been slacking with that, but I've just been trying to figure out where to put that too, because it'd be nice to have it like in behind any videos and stuff, stuff like that, but just like I can't really put it way up there, yeah, um, so I don't know, I'll see like I might just have to like shift the desk around here and see what's gonna work the best. I just I like having the natural lighting coming in for the video, so it generally makes it look better. If it's like side lighting, sometimes you get shadows on the face and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:So, but yours is actually not bad. So my window is right here, so it's just wall right behind my computer. So, I'll have to try it out. Okay, yeah, so it's probably just play around with it, but for now I might just put mine on this wall. So I'll just move this so you guys could see. So here there's a small piece of land in between my window. I got Amazon. I'm just probably going to hang my sword vertical like that.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that would work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's just the, the design of the, the sword, I think, just looks better if it's vertical than horizontal. I just kind of looked at it and so, anyways, it's gonna come, and then I'm going to put a put a hole in the wall and I'm just gonna hang the card just right above it. I'd probably just I don't know duct tape it on, something like that there, there you go.
Speaker 2:That will work great, my sword is stuff over. Does yours have a little hole at the top where you can just put?
Speaker 1:It doesn't have a hole.
Speaker 2:It has this. This is all steel.
Speaker 1:I don't think it will hold if I put a hook there. Okay, it's just these two little hooks that come through this way and it's going to hold like that.
Speaker 2:Oh, that makes sense yeah.
Speaker 1:This is so fun, man, just dealing with how to hang up there. Just spend the whole half episode just talking about how to feed our ego and just hang it. Yes, I agree. Now, just going back to the, the idea of celebrating the thing. Kristin did say something to us at the edmonton show which it never crossed my mind now, now, reflecting on it, this year, I think it's a very, very special year. Yourself, myself and, I think, a couple of my friends that I've worked with, has achieved this honor in actually achieving their pro card at the WMBF show. Now, if you said it was my lifelong dream to become a WMBF pro, I'd be lying if I said yes. However, I do believe it is a first step into the right direction of where I personally want to be. So story for you is from young age to now.
Speaker 1:If you've listened to our previous episodes before, you know I wasn't an athlete since when I was young, so therefore I didn't compete in much competitions. Therefore I didn't win anything. The best I did in my entire life when I was still a kid is I took part in a very amateur judo little sparring and competition, ish and I placed third. But then that was before puberty I was still probably just like three foot four, something like that, and that was the only sort of medal I've ever won in my entire life. And then I moved into a more academic course and career before this, so there wasn't really any sort of competition in the way.
Speaker 1:Now, 10, well, not 10 years eight years ago in 2016, that's when I began my first competition prep. Prior to that, I was just doing some sort of bro training or even inconsistent gym goer. Now moving forward, that was my first prep. 2017 was my first prep. Eight years later, here I am, and I've used read of my posts. I've uh, gotten to a little bit on how how far it got here. So this, this for me, is, I would say, is a big deal. It is something that finally placed first that, so it means a little bit different for everybody. It is something that finally placed first that, so it means a little bit different for everybody.
Speaker 1:So it makes me feel like I finally did something useful in my life that is not just based upon very mediocre tiers.
Speaker 2:I didn't know you did judo. That's actually very cool. I did some MMA back in high school and stuff, but I didn't know you did judo, that's that's actually very cool, like I.
Speaker 1:I did some ma mma back in like high school and stuff. But I yeah, I didn't realize you did that I was. I wouldn't even count that. That was like I was three. I was literally like three foot or four foot. I was still a kid, so it meant nothing. I don't even know if I still have that bronze medal anymore.
Speaker 1:It was very insignificant I was gonna be like we gotta do some grappling man no uh, you would probably you're just out of body slamming and I'll be done but meaning forward that, um, since I did say it means very different for everybody. It took me eight years to get into this specific place. I did start the, I did start the uh, the sport much, much later, um, than yourself not bragging, yeah, it took me eight years, but, um, it means definitely something different for you, and everybody on social media is exploding as soon as they found out you earned your wmbf pro card and everybody, including myself, is so happy for you. Everybody believed that, uh, it's a long time coming, maybe a little bit too long for you. So in this moment I know we talked about this last time that you're in peace with it and it finally comes together, that we could solidify that the fact.
Speaker 2:This is where you should be yeah, yeah, man again, uh, congrats on the masters pro card for yourself, dude.
Speaker 2:Like again, like just watching you get that, like I just know, like you've been through like a similar process where it's taken so long to be able to get it, so to be able to finally, um, get that sort of get that master's pro card, man, like it's just I don't know, I get almost more pumped saying you get it than when I got it myself.
Speaker 2:I feel like, um, yeah, like it's because I did do quite a bit of sports and stuff growing up, but like I was kind of similar, like I never really placed like super high, like winning a lot of stuff, like we'd always come like third in competitions. Like I used like winning a lot of stuff, like we'd always come like third in competitions. Like I used to do a lot of curling, um, where we, we made it to provincials but we never ended up winning provincials. Um, I did like basketball or in high school where we did pretty good but we, we never really won. So like I would say this is the only sport as well where I've actually been able to actually win that pro card, or like come first in shows and stuff like that and like I feel like with the.
Speaker 2:WNBF like I've actually that was actually my second WNBF show Cause, like all the other shows that I did was actually just the BCA, bba and the CPA. So when I did that Vancouver show back in 2023, that was actually my first ever WNBF show. So I think that's where, like, a lot of people are like, oh, I should have got it so much earlier, but it's like I've only really had one attempt at it, but I've competed in so many other like shows in different federations where it's just like I didn't have as many opportunities, so like if I I don't know, like again, like I might not have gotten it early on, but like, yeah, I didn't have as many opportunities to get, just like, literally, that, that one show, and then this, the second show there, oh, shit, I didn't realize that, like counting back.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're actually right, so you did the 2023 vancouver yeah, I think the reason why, the reason why it seemed like that, is because with covid just like yourself, ben, like we, like I had two preps get canceled due to COVID, so like I was prepping for the Vancouver show back in 2020. And then it got canceled due to COVID and then I think I was prepping for 2021. And then it got canceled again due to COVID yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think, like it just yeah, it seemed like maybe I was competing in like the WNBF for longer, but yeah, it seemed like maybe I was competing in the WNBA for longer. But yeah, because my very first show was through the BCABBA, which was at the time called the Kona Classic, which I remember coming in third in my classic league, and then that's kind of what got me really into competing. Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, oh right, so right. So yeah, I guess it does make sense. Oh yeah, it just seems that you've been in the wmbf forever, it's probably. Yeah, I guess we've been posting about them and then, yeah, on social media I think we're just we're just involved in them, just making the effect that we've been there for so many times, but we forget the times that we are at the show, but we're with clients, so we are like volunteering, so you see us at the show, but we're not actually really doing anything well, yeah, that's and that's exactly it, because I remember donald was my first ever client, that I had to compete at the wmbf and I think that was 2018.
Speaker 2:um, so that's when I started getting involved with that federation and having more clients the WNBF, and I think that was 2018. So that's when I started getting involved with that federation and having more clients go towards it because of that polygraph, because of the urinalysis test, and like, since then, the caliber has just been like creeping up, higher and higher and higher. So it's, it's been cool to see.
Speaker 1:but I think that's also where, like that 2023 season, where I was like, okay, like the competitiveness of this is like getting to a really good point, making it very difficult to to get those pro cards I agree, I agree, uh, just by looking at it and watching it, since not 2018, but having but having my eyes on this federation, which was recommended by Marvin, one of my friends, and Kenneth as well Congratulations to him to getting his classic physique program at Edmonton. They all took part in the WMBF or IMBF back then in the US, so then I was just looking at them and until now we we finally got to step on stage on 2022 for me in calgary. That was my first show and just counting oh yeah, just just counting the medals, like like I have now, I was lucky actually to to get a medal in every, every wmbf show that I've competed. So calgary 22 my first one, and then my second one was colonna yeah, yeah yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2:I've been showing up at vancouver like every year we're even more alike in that way too, because, yeah, you did two wmbf shows and I've done two yeah, well, third one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my third one is is when the sword came, edmonton's. My third one yeah, yeah so it's the third one, yeah so second one is your um, so colonna is actually literally your second one yeah, for the wmbf and then in.
Speaker 2:In total I think colonna was the eighth or ninth bodybuilding show that I've done.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's right Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, it's still a long journey. It's still a very, very long journey. But now, since now we're pros, now we're now going to talk about what's next, because that's what's everybody going to ask we sort of decided, but we sort of haven't. I'm not going to tell you who's who, so you guys figure that out. I'm not going to tell you who's who, so you guys figure that out. But beyond that, there is something more important and significant that I wanted to ask. Now, this is more of a psychological question for fellow competitors or even ourselves. I think it's just human instincts. On this particular topic, how would you go around in, let's say, discussing this issue, the fact that we meet new friends and fellow competitors at these shows? It is competition, so we'll make friends and we'll make I don't want to say enemies, but we'll make rivals in these shows. Now, do you find that you make friends more or do you find you, you, you not really talk to them?
Speaker 2:no, like I've I found at every single show I've went to, like I've always chatted with people. Usually it's I see them online first through like getting tagged on the wmbf or whatever show that I'm competing in, and usually they either comment on some of my stuff or I comment on theirs and we just start a conversation. And it's fun man, even for the BC Cup this past year with Malcolm. He beat me last year at the BC Cup and then I knew he was going to be there again and it was just fun to hang out Because I respect him, because I know how far he's come, um, he respects me.
Speaker 2:So it's like it's nice just to have like a person that you're competing, that you respect, and like you're able to just like shoot the shit backstage and just have a good time with it, rather than like staring at the person with the evil eye in the corner and then just because like I feel like backstage at these shows, like it's nice to just let go of those nerves.
Speaker 2:So the more you can chat with people, the more you can just kind of relate and connect because, like a lot of times people have gone through very similar things that you've gone through yourself with the prep like, with all the symptoms that come along with it, with all all the struggles, like everybody's going to be slightly different, but a lot of times there's a lot of similar things. So you can really resonate with that other competitor, um, talking to them backstage or through social media. So I try to view it from that perspective just getting to know somebody and like a lot of like friends like me and you, like the first ever time we like started talking was literally because we were both going to be competing at the same show, though it didn't happen because of covid yeah, um we were potentially maybe going to be competing against each other at that show, but we kind of build the friendship right through it.
Speaker 2:So that's that's kind of how I view it is just um trying to make friends with it.
Speaker 2:Like there's gonna be, yeah, that odd guy that's kind of a dick, that is gonna be like super competitive and not try to talk to you and have this like, oh, I'm working harder than everybody else, everybody else is not gonna beat me, because I like, when people have that kind of mentality, sometimes I see them kind of either, like not talking to people backstage, but I honestly think that's just doing them more harm than good. Yeah, I agree yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:So I uh, from just that, this perspective do to a lot of the shows that we've looked at or we've participated in Canada. That's usually the case for the backstage vibes, which I appreciate it, you know, everybody's very friendly, everybody's very supportive. So I would say the WM of Canada support system is is extremely well, uh, well established. Um, however now it is, it is just nature to look at your fellow competitors when you don't know them. So that's usually the build-up towards a show. When a show is coming up in 12, 16 or whatever weeks, uh, let's say, calgary is going to come in what? 16 weeks?
Speaker 1:15 weeks from now, yeah, I think something like that yeah so any other individuals that who are going to be going into the calgary amateur show, pro show, that's a different story. Now, anybody who's going to go into the amateur calgary show or even the saskatchewan on the ontario show that's coming up in wma of canada? Um, it is inevitable for you to just start wanting to scroll through social media, especially at their page. Whoever tags wma of canada. You really want to know who is the formidable um rival that you're going to run into. That you have no idea who is Easier said than done, as we've talked about.
Speaker 1:Even for myself, it didn't really get around my head a little bit, I would say a little bit. I would be lying if I said it didn't. In this Edmonton show I did the same, I wouldn't say mistake, but I did this. It's just scrolling through social media and just to see who's going to be going into edmonton for men's physique specifically. And I ran into vincent, yeah, yeah. So that when I saw him I was like, oh my god, this guy is going to kill it. He is extremely, uh, well developed, he's's got. Yeah, you saw him. He lives in Edmonton too.
Speaker 2:Yeah we actually he reached out to me like just to get some help with posing and just like chat a bit about the show and everything and like so yeah, like I knew him he came to I think we hung out like probably 14 weeks out or something from the Edmonton show, but no, he was looking back good back then. And then like he came in, yeah, really really conditioned um, still looking very full, not too dieted um. So no, I yeah I had a feeling he was it was gonna do very well at that show, yeah and he did and uh, congratulations to him again.
Speaker 1:Um, again, you can see he was just beyond it, was just beyond joy and beyond uh, to, to, to win the whole thing. So I feel very happy for him. But let's rewind back in time 12, 8, 12 weeks or something like that. Oh no, not 12 weeks. Uh, I think the colonna and emmett was only four weeks yeah, yeah, it was, I think it was five weeks.
Speaker 1:Yeah so, but I did. I did see him during that month on social media and and then I looked at him and I was like, man, this is, this guy is going to kill it, and deep down it didn't feel good. I mean, great, I'm gonna run into a very strong opponent on on the stage. I might know that I might not beat him, and it killed me a little bit until I decided to comment on one of his post and actually his stories, and then we just made it just small talk and then that was it, until I saw him in person. And I think when we saw I saw him in person, that's when the whole not hatred, but the hate, but the hate in that moment is just all gone. You just see him and I feel so relieved. It's a very weird feeling. I don't know how to explain it.
Speaker 2:He's such a nice dude too, like he's very friendly, like even when we met up like it's, it's like he. He also went through like he's competed once before and he didn't quite get lean enough. Um, I think the coach with he was with at the time didn't kind of get him in the best position, whereas this time he had a better coach and stuff. So he he's kind of already suffered through like not doing well on the show. So like like being able to bring a whole new level to this next show. I was really cool to see for him and uh, yeah, sorry what were you gonna say there?
Speaker 1:no, um, I was just saying, I was just saying that the the mentality of the support system is, is very, very different. Um, being very competitive and just demotivating yourself just looking through that social media in deep prep isn't a good thing, but I know it's inevitable. I would say that still do it. But I think it's not. I'm not encouraging you to do it, but then you'll do it, regardless what we say. But then you'll do it, regardless what we say.
Speaker 2:If you're the type of person that is very cocky and think you're going to win the show, it might be a nice way to humble yourself to see some of the other people that are going to be at the show, just so you're not just surprised Like, oh shit, I thought I was going to win this whole thing and I didn't do as well as I planned. It can be a great way to be like okay, there's going to like win this whole thing and I didn't do as well as I planned. Like it can be a great way to like.
Speaker 1:okay, like there's going to be like this level of competition so it can help you give give you an idea.
Speaker 2:Another thing, though, too, with that like, if you're somebody brand new to competing, usually the people that are posting up on their stories like they're at like a quite high level, not a lot of like the other competitors are competing of, like the other competitors are competing, so it kind of gives you a false sense of like how competitive like all the competitors are going to be. So just be wary of that as well. And like, sometimes, with people and they're posting up stuff, they're only doing it in very like crazy lighting.
Speaker 2:That makes them look insane, so and sometimes you can see him in person like, oh like he, like this person, doesn't look as good as like I thought he was, so that can happen too. So but, but the main thing is just like, yeah, when you're competing, you have to be able to get in that mindset of doing it for yourself. It's nice to have a look and see where the what the competitors are at and see where, okay, maybe this person might beat me um and accepting that. But like, yeah, you can't get too obsessed with that because that can also make you do some stupid shit. So, like, if you're seeing this guy, like maybe he's ahead of you in terms of conditioning and you're like like freaking out like a lot of times when we look at our own conditioning, we think we're less conditioned than we actually are.
Speaker 2:Um, so that can start to play games with your mind. You can start making the wrong move if you don't have a coach and digging even further and making it hard to peak and stuff like that. You want to make sure that this person isn't going to dictate what you're doing with your own front desk prep. Especially if you're in that emotional state, it can definitely make you cut calories more.
Speaker 2:Try to train harder run into recovery issues if you're not doing the best thing. So, yeah, you definitely want to watch out for it's making, you make adjustments unnecessary adjustments to your protocol.
Speaker 1:I agree. So that is finally something that we landed on. The main talk of this episode is really just trying to maneuver around on your own prep and your own plan, just based upon who is actually going to show up at the show. Show Now, first off, I'll just say right off the bat, is managing expectations.
Speaker 1:If you have no expectations I'm going to speak from this from a very fresh personal standpoint, which happened to me at the Edmonton show. I was so overjoyed that I've got my pro card in the Masters division. I was so, so happy and then I felt like I was done, I don't need to do anything else. But then I still signed up to be the open and I had zero expectations. There were 11 guys. All of them were like thick and jacked and my pumps started to come down already. So I didn't even expect myself to even make top five. So I just wanted to get the open and just get it over with it and then just rest. That was my expectation going up into open.
Speaker 1:Now, surprise, surprise, I actually managed to play second at the opens men's physique, right next to Vincent, and I'm not gonna name who, but somebody told me that it was a little bit of a, not a a struggle, but they were really comparing myself and Vincent for first place. So it was good to hear. It was very, very good to hear and it was. It made me very, very happy. I'm very, I'm overjoyed to actually even place second. So I think, number one managing expectations. If you have zero expectations going into a show number one managing expectations. If you have zero expectations going into a show, you will be much more proud of yourself and you would, yeah, you'll just be so much more happier with the entire outcome. So that's first thing.
Speaker 2:so like with you, like, did you like let's maybe roll back to like with you and like vincent and stuff like that? Like, was there any tricks that you used to try to not get that into your head too much?
Speaker 1:um, like knowing that Vincent, vincent was at that show, or I expect Vincent to be there and I expect him to make top five or even top three, regardless. There wasn't a lot of other athletes who tagged WMBF, so we don't know who else is there, including myself. Myself, I kept this very, very low key. I kept this Edmonton show very, very low. I didn't tag anybody. I didn't really tell anybody. Only a handful of people knew. So there was no way in knowing who's going to be there besides Vincent, and we've been to so many competitions, we've seen so many athletes on stage. Therefore, once you see a physique, we have a pretty good idea if they're going to do well and yeah. So when I see him, it's like, yeah, he's definitely going to do well. That was just it and there wasn't really anything else left. To think Makes sense, man.
Speaker 2:Makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, else left to think makes sense. That makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, but going back to what my second point was, um, which I'm still trying to, oh right, just going back, uh, in adjusting plans and uh, comparison, I think you bring out a very good point and asking me that question, just remind me of. What I wanted to say was how would you not what? How would you, but trying to maneuver your way around psychologically, in looking yourself in the mirror and then comparing it to what you see on the social media, knowing that's going to be one of your fellow athletes that's going to be standing next to you, like you're going to start judging yourself then from that, from that point, there's just no way around that. You're going to do it. I did it.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you did it, uh, but I definitely did it, and I think you made it something very clear that you would probably start to want to make uh rash decisions in trying to outflex or outpose or out-posed or out-conditioned this other athlete. So, from a coach's perspective and an athlete just comes to you expressing a very similar concern, what would you say, dan?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, okay, like it is good to know a little bit about your competitors and like some of them that are going to be there, like, if, like, for example, like we know we can push conditioning a bit more and out condition that guy, that's great.
Speaker 2:We just don't want to do it in a fashion that's gonna like have them crash, adding into the show, um, but no, it's, it's. It's one of those things where you just want to make sure that, like, okay, like, if we're having, if they're looking at their photos and stuff, stuff comparing it to the other competitor we want to see like what's realistic that we can actually change right now. That's gonna make you look better than this person. If this person's like genetically, like elite um, there's somebody like leroy or they're just like a mass monster. They have crazy conditioning, crazy shape, and you're in your first ever show. Unfortunately, we can't do anything at this moment that's going to make you look better than that individual that took like 10, like a decade to get there. So just setting that realistic expectation and then pointing it back to them, right, like okay, this is how far you've come, like this is when we first started.
Speaker 2:This is how much you've been able to change, how much you've been able to improve on your posing, your conditioning, how things are looking better and better and like setting up it. So like, okay, we're doing this for yourself, we're trying to be your absolute best self. If you're getting distracted by these other people, it might make you like feel worse about yourself. It may make you have a worse experience at the show, because that's all you're focused on is them. And like placing, rather like trying to reel it back into kit, like you mentioned. Like having no expectations, like doing your absolute best you can and see what that brings on show day. A lot of times you'll do better than expected. Like.
Speaker 2:A lot of times, like not having expectation, like when you do do well, like you feel really good, like if, and then if you do maybe slightly poorer than what you had, if you don't have expectations, then it's like even if you come dead last, it's not a big deal, right, right, so like it definitely helps cushion it more and it helps you stay motivated and uh, I'm ready to push um, but yeah, just trying to avoid having like a crazy expectation, even for me, like this last year I knew I had a good chance of getting that pro card, but I tried not to like overly emphasize it. Oh, it's just pro card, pro card, pro card and just have that all my head, because I knew like that was probably gonna mess with me, with taking action on certain things or my stress levels during peak week. So I was just like, hey, no expectations, um, I'm just gonna follow the game plan and kind of see what happens. Like even when I competed against malcolm at bc cup, I was like, hey, I know this guy's a fucking mass monster.
Speaker 2:I have a feeling he'll probably beat me, but we'll just see what happens, right. And then, yeah, he beat me, but I wasn't crushed or anything when he beat me.
Speaker 1:I was like oh yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Let's move on to this next show, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's great, that's awesome. I think you make make really good. Now I want to dig just a little bit deeper on expectations, as you mentioned. Uh, now we, we know, as compared as fellow competitors and athletes who competed so many times or even watch so many competition so many times bodybuilding competitions to be clear, there is a certain uh placings on stage that we understand. There's a, there's a culture there that we understand on who's going to be first, who's going to be second and the placing um, how it's arranged. I'm not going to go into detail on how that's going to look like now. As a competitor yourself, as an athlete yourself, you sort of know where you stand once the judge moves you around. So here's my I wouldn't say a take on it, but I just wanted to get your take on it. How would your mind think that particular moment where you know that you're not at the place that you think?
Speaker 2:yeah, and that's. It's a tricky one because I even with wmbf like they moved me, I think, I believe, out from center to like one slightly off to the right oh to the left, to your left to all right so, like, like in my mind, like, you start thinking like, oh, like, am I maybe second?
Speaker 2:like, yeah, and like, but you, you have to make sure that it's not going to affect your posing, because, like some people, I've seen this so many times where somebody's like dead center and they get positioned slightly over and then they just stop flexing as hard, they're not as motivated, they even see it in their facial expression, and then it's like, well, you're just making yourself look worse. Now they're not going to bring you back to center.
Speaker 2:So, like, being able to like if you get positioned outside, like that doesn't necessarily mean that you're not like getting first place, they're just wanting to compare and like, see, like on, the're just wanting to compare and like, see, they've got a guy on the other side and like, even with some shows, with wmbf, like one that I was judging.
Speaker 2:one time they put their winner all the way to the right side and I was when I was doing the test judging. I was like what is going on? And then it's like, oh, they knew he was the winner, so they just wanted to put him off to the side and compare to others. I don't necessarily think that's the best judging move because it can mentally mess you up, but that's where you just got to make sure you hold strong. Same with the BC Cup. Like I was on the ends, they positioned me on the ends of the four guys and I was like I was thinking back in my head I was probably getting third but then I ended up getting second.
Speaker 2:So so trying not to have your emotions set too much on where you're positioned in that lineup yeah, if you're typically closer to the middle, typically that is the best thing. If you're dead set in the middle and you're staying there the whole time, that's definitely a good thing, but it's not guaranteeing you that win. So try not to emotionally connect too too much with that?
Speaker 1:I agree it could. It could very much get in your head once your position moves and it's a very, very tricky thing and as as a coach or there's really nothing we can do about it you are on stage, you can't come whispering in your ear. So I think our best, my, my best advice is just to hold your composure, no matter where you stand, even though you're at the corner, and just hold your composure. Do the entire flex, no matter what.
Speaker 2:It's not over, until it's actually over the worst thing is too, like what you'll see sometimes is just people's facial expressions. So they they feel like you can almost sense that really big annoyance of them getting moved out and like like from like a judge. I'm pretty sure they can sense that like if you're seeming annoyed on stage, like that's giving off like not the best vibe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely yeah, you want to make sure you're still keeping like a good vibe on stage, you're're still going to enjoy yourself up there, do the best you can do, and that in itself is going to help you, whereas if you're getting annoyed, if you're like, fuck, I guess I'm not first and I'm going to start slacking with my posing you're just going to make yourself do even worse.
Speaker 1:Exactly, I agree, I agree. So, that being said, that's just trying to hold your composure as an athlete while you're up there. But has any? Maybe I'll ask that and I'll word this differently has any athlete of your past athletes come back backstage after the comparison round and just started to flip out that? He was like he or she was just so was upset with the, the placings on stage. Now, during that time, we still don't know who, until awards where they place. Now, then the most frustrating thing is when the class has an even number, so there really isn't a center, a center spot, and you just don't know if you're second or third or first Now I don't know if you have any. Uh, he's come back saying this, saying what I mentioned, just flip out and just get really frustrated on the, the, the positioning that they were on stage. Uh, have you had that experience? Or, if so, how would you have handled that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I haven't had any like really bad version of that. I've had a couple guys for like, oh, like I feel like I should have done better. I should, I feel like I should have placed better um, but I've never had somebody like completely like flip out and get super angry and just start treating people like dicks rigged. Yeah, yeah, um. So no, like I've been really lucky to have clients that, um, don't behave like that. But I I think it's because I set that expectation up first, where I'm just like okay, like we're looking to do our best, like I tried to get them in a mode where it's like okay, no matter what, like okay, we did our best to get to the stage and try not to solely focus on that. I think that's another thing too is one mistake I did one show was I went backstage after like the prejudging before they did their walk and I was talking to the guy and I was like talking about where I think he was positioned and I think he thought he was positioned better. So during his box walk you could tell he was just not in it, like he was kind of all over the place and the stomach. Okay, I got it. I shouldn't tell them that before the box walk, like that was a bad move on my side. But yeah, so things like that I've definitely done, mistakenly done.
Speaker 2:But yeah, no, most people I've worked with like we've they've had a good metallic yeah, there's sometimes we're like, oh, I feel like I should have did better, like looking at photos and stuff like that. But sometimes the photos only tell you so much and cause like when you're there in person like I've had times where I was at the show seeing all the competitors and like the guy that clearly won. But then when I look at the photos online, I'm like man, like this guy looks like shit with the photos online compared to how he did in person and like I think that's where sometimes, when people see these photos, they're like, oh man, like I feel like I look so much better. But when you're there, when you're directly where the judges are, sometimes people can look quite a bit different than those photos, like in terms of like the conditioning that last little detail, that's hard to pick up with the cameras I agree.
Speaker 1:so, like in person, I think the the show definitely looks different from, uh, the photos, and photos only only take only show, honestly, just a 2d version of it. However, we're moving and we're flexing and we're doing this and that on stage, the judges has a handful themselves. They've got to look at 10 or 8, 10 competitors at the same time and place them in just a short period of time. As for us, we can just look at our screen and just judge there and just judge there. So there is a bit of a debate between people in front of the screen saying and determining if this champion or this first place or second place is deserving. That's up for debate, and there are haters. They're just going to just talk about that. I don't think this guy deserves to be second. I don't think he deserves the thing. How would they just manage? Uh, there was a you know there was a very questionable judge and call, so there.
Speaker 2:there are stuff like that in in all shows, honestly, but you've never had any clients that just came backstage and then there was just dead silence, that he just didn't say anything, right uh no I I don't think so, because usually I would just like start a conversation, be like how you doing, man, like, like, um, and just like have a little chat about it and like I usually always like to say like things they did really well on stage, because you don't want to come back and just say, oh man, you fucked up this you gotta be like hey man like this is really good, this is really good, um, and then just just to, especially if they're going on for like um even though most judging's done it's.
Speaker 2:It's nice just to have them um just like fix something up quickly for like the, the awards and stuff like that, right, um, but yeah, or like their routine and everything but have you ever thought about if one of your athletes like touch, knock on wood man, like literally knock on wood?
Speaker 1:let's hope that doesn't happen. Like an athlete comes back, he's let's say, this athlete has, is a very, has a very competitive heart and that's also some of the one of the downsides for being extremely competitive. Um, they come back. They didn't meet their own expectations. They met yours for sure, as a coach. They met your expectations and you believe that they peaked as best at this possibly can. So, however, it's just them, it's just them versus them. And the individual just came, comes back just dead silent because he wasn't happy with himself.
Speaker 2:It's a very tricky way to just get into it sometimes you have to just let them be and let them sit with their emotions for a bit because, like sometimes if you try to help like some like I feel like just from like an argumentation, like standpoint with some people, that especially if they're super emotional, if you start like trying to like talk about it, sometimes it's just so aggravating. So I would probably like just be like hey man, like you did an awesome job. Like do you want to talk about it? Like if they're like in that, like really, and like if they're like no, I just I just gotta chill for it.
Speaker 2:Like usually they'll tell you what they want so like if they're like, I don't want to talk about right now, just like, let them be, let them sit with it, um, let the emotions calm down, and then you can kind of talk to them. But, yeah, if, if they're in that, if they're in a bit more of a calm state, then yeah, then it's. It's fine to kind of really dive into what's what happened and why, like the placing is what it was yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:So I think that the the positive side is just giving, giving athletes, uh, positive reinforcements. For sure it's even for everybody. I would, I would try to give, um, my best positive reinforcement to everybody who actually competed. Uh, let's just say saying, just just saying a really simple, you know, well done, good job to your fellow competitors or even the class before you. I think we have this in WM.
Speaker 1:If Canada is just creating a very, very good vibe backstage so it avoids a lot of hard feelings, it avoids a lot of very weird awkward silences at the backstage and yeah, I mean it's a very small backstage there are a lot of people who need to share very tight spaces, uh like tank touch-ups, uh pump up room.
Speaker 1:It's a very tight space and I, everybody needs to pump up. At the same time, athletes are getting crammed through a small space. It's not going to feel good, it's warm, and then everybody's anxious and very nervous to get on stage. So just saying that what we want to say is just being in that environment can go both ways. But I believe if making these positive reinforcements can strengthen the friendship more than creating rivalries in the long run. Now, bodybuilding is going to be there forever and you might run into this athlete again, and again, and again. So why make another enemy when you can have a friend? True, why make another enemy when you can have a friend? True, I mean, you might, genetically you might not be as gifted as the another athlete, but doesn't mean you have to hate him for it.
Speaker 2:It's not his fault either well, this thing, if you make a friend with him too, like he might give you some pointers you might like. Oh hey, if you do this, they're like you might actually try to help you rather than sabotage you, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I agree so I think this is the beauty of one of the like a really good support system is having the support of other fellow competitors who did really, really well. They might give you some very good tips on what helped them, um, compared to, uh, what you're currently doing, and I think it also brings me I think it's a good segue. Uh, just a small segue to what I want to speak about is, uh, we get to talk about ourselves again on our first not first prep, but our previous prep versus this particular prep for you and colonna, and for myself, for edmonton, on what we changed that pushed us pushed us a little bit further yeah with like the the changing to the pique, yeah, yeah or that, or maybe at the prep itself or the posing itself, anything that you wanted to share yeah, like I would say, for me definitely getting a posing coach definitely helped a lot.
Speaker 2:There's still a little bit of an issue with, like, my lats not coming up completely in the shoulders being slightly forward. I think that's probably a little nerves and just a little bit of tightness, um, but being able to have like opposing coach definitely helped me out. I know, for this last coat, last show, having anthony just take the reins with the peaking um definitely helped me to kind of take take the stress off there.
Speaker 2:Um so but, yeah, main things are just just time too right. Like the more more you compete, the better you're gonna get. The better you get with posing, like if it's your first ever show competing, even if you have a posing coach, opposing coach, that your posing is probably not going to be like top tier. Like it takes time to develop that skill, that mind, muscle connection, have that awareness over your body. Um, and the more you do it, the better you're going to get. Same with prepping, like each time you do it, like though it's going to be still challenging, it's going to get easier, you're going to have those habits are going to come quicker.
Speaker 2:Um, the whole process itself. Just I find it actually becomes more enjoyable, more when you do it. Um, whereas the first prep like if you guys are listening, it can be pretty brutal, like it can be pretty rough, you're not used to. Like this is the first time experiencing these kind of symptoms and that tunnel vision and like the all the stressors and managing things. So like if you're going to compete again, just know like it's going to get easier each time you do it um, but yeah, those, those would be like my main points for for this last one great that.
Speaker 1:I think that's a really good point is. For myself, I would say, if it's your first time, um, I would just stay on the safer side. If you're doing your first prep you said it the more you do it, the more experienced you you're going to become and it's going to become easier and then and then you can experience, uh, different varieties of ways to peak that your body responds well to um. Your body will change over time, as so did ours. It changed over time and it responds differently to different protocols.
Speaker 1:Now, with training, science going, evolving every single day not every single day, but every single year there's just new stuff coming out on how prepping is going and things like that. So there's a lot of ton of information out there now. Uh, probably just closing speeches first is a little bit of closing speeches for getting yourself ready for the coming preps, our coming shows. What would you have, let's say, tips for people with um, having friends coming to the same show potentially might be competing with each with each other, maybe tips or on how to manage them yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So like again, just trying to keep that like friendly vibe, like again the worst, you don't want to be like that super competitive person that's just like dissing everybody else, and especially because, like, if you do that and then you don't even place well, then it's like I mean, everybody now hates you and you didn't do well, so you're just going to feel terrible, whereas and you did do well, so you're just gonna feel terrible. Whereas like yeah, if you're keeping that nice, um friendly vibe with people like, um, supporting them, they're gonna support you. Um, because, yeah, anything you put out there, you're gonna get back. If you're gonna be being a dick to people or trying to be like super self-centered, like you're not gonna be getting support from them. So, like I always just encourage you out whatever you put out, you're gonna get back.
Speaker 1:So if you're you're giving that support to them, you're gonna get support back I agree, that's a really, really good pointer and I think that's uh, that's exactly pretty much what I would I would recommend as well on behalf. Again, uh, for both of us, we really appreciate all the support that you guys have given us. It's been an amazing month with all the overwhelming congrats and all the blessings that you've guys given us. We're really, really appreciative of that. We do hope to excel in some of these contents for you guys as well. If there's things that you want us to discuss or bring up, please comment below or slide us a DM and again I'm just going to bring it around again.
Speaker 1:If you want to do compete within this year, wmef Canada we're specifically biased to the federation. We do think that it provides us a very fair platform for us to, for natural athletes to shine. Everybody's fair, everybody's. Take the polygraph. All winners will take a urinal test and they're all measured in a very equal. So I think it makes it fair. If you haven't started prep and you've wanted to compete your first time or your second time, we're more than happy to help In. Let's say, calgary is in what? 15 weeks, so you better get started now. We really recommend you start a little bit early, as we talked about, not really necessarily just looking at who is going to be there, but honestly, just starting early so we can. There's more space and more room, uh, for you to, for us to play around with some peaking protocols and just having more time for you to prepare it um, and just more time to get into, like a lot of people that they come and they, they're they.
Speaker 2:The biggest thing with those amateurs or first timers is just not quite getting lean enough. So giving you enough time to lose that weight or that body fat in a in a controlled fashion I agree, I agree, that's a really good point.
Speaker 1:But, yes, um, if anything, um, thanks for listening. Again, I really appreciate it. We have um brandon here and myself, so please dm us if, uh, if there's any questions or if there's anything that you wanted us to speak about. Uh, again, we really appreciate your time. We'll speak to you guys next time.
Speaker 2:Yes, see, ya, you, you, you, thank you.