Lifting Nerds
Adrian Ma and Brandon Emslie share discussions and interviews with the fitness community's best science-based researchers and coaches.
Lifting Nerds
S3E9: From Show Reports to Training Tips: Two Coaches Talk Shop
Kristen celebrates earning his WNBF pro card after 14 years of dedicated training, marking the culmination of his natural bodybuilding journey that brought both relief and peace in that moment of achievement.
• Natural bodybuilding competitions are increasing in both competitor numbers and quality, with WNBF shows now matching or exceeding CPA shows in some regions
• Exercise execution nuances significantly impact muscle development, particularly for incline presses where rib position and hand path affect upper chest activation
• The "iliac row" effectively targets lower lat fibers but requires proper form to prevent rear delt fatigue and maximize back engagement
• Training to failure varies by exercise type—machine movements can go to complete failure while compound exercises require stopping when form deteriorates
• Muscle maturity develops over years of consistent training, creating denser, striated tissue that presents better on stage
• Competition prep should start well in advance with small, sustainable deficits rather than aggressive approaches
• Peak week strategies should reduce training volume, decrease cardio, and focus on glycogen replenishment rather than intensifying efforts
Reach out to us on Instagram if you're interested in coaching or have questions about competition prep. You can either fill out the application in our bios or send us a direct message.
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Host
@_adrianma
@brandonemslie
welcome back guys to I don't know which episode right now, um, but welcome back. Um. If you guys have not seen, uh, it's been a week and a half after our show last time at WMF Kelowna we have released a pre-show and not really a post-show, but things that happened in the WMF Kelowna show on YouTube. It is just a video itself. It does not have a audio. So if you haven't checked it out, go watch it. It's not too long. I think it's like what 12, 15, 12, 13 minutes ish, yeah, yeah, so if you didn't get to get the show, it's okay. Uh, we are going to talk a little bit about it here today. Uh, it's been a week and a half the 20, yeah, it's the 28th, the show was like 17th yeah, the 17th, it's well, that's the thing.
Speaker 2:Like I feel we were talking about this off air, like it feels like it's been so long since the show already, yeah, but it's yeah, it's literally only been a month and a half, so it's crazy how a week, a week like yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's crazy man, it's probably been.
Speaker 1:There's, um, there's just been a lot of stuff going on post-show. I would understand, especially for yourself. It's very I honestly feel very, very happy for you and Emma. Everything's become full circle. Everybody who's just followed you knows this. So we'll just take this opportunity to congratulate you again and Emma for both of you just achieving a very well-deserved WMVF pro card. Uh, it has been coming your way for, as everybody said, kristen, everybody says like it's very, very well, it's finally come to you. So we all feel very, very happy that, um, you're finally a WMVF pro. So this is going to be the bigger, the bigger. Now you have achieved your pro card.
Speaker 2:What now? Thanks again for congratulating me, man. It definitely means a lot. It's been a long journey to get the WNBF pro card. I've been training 14 years now, so it's nice to finally see all that work just pay off to that moment and just I just felt like there was so much like relief and I kind of peace in that moment when I was finally able to get it.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, again, thanks much, and whoever follows me and whoever was reaching out and wishing me best luck and stuff like that, I really really appreciate you guys for doing that. In terms of what's to come next, so I'm thinking probably doing the WNBF Calgary show in two years' time. I guess it would probably be a year and a half or three and a half years' time. It's just going to depend on how much progress I can make. Since I've been at it for a while, it's a slow process to continue to gain muscle and the feedback was, yeah, just to continue getting bigger, get even a bit leaner for the pro stage. So that's pretty much the game plan is see if I can pack on another couple of pounds or so. I guess, if I get leaner, probably still be around the same stage weight, just for a bit more tissue, um, so that's kind of the main game plan.
Speaker 2:Um, I know for you, uh, you're thinking about doing the Edmonton Masters show, which I'm really excited for you to come here hang out and cheer you on for that show. Man like, uh, how, how was that experience for you, man? How was getting uh the win in the in the masters at the show?
Speaker 1:it was fun. Yeah, it was. It was fun. Um, I got to go up against um aureole. He's a fantastic guy. Uh, tall, huge, uh, very, very well developed chess guy. Uh, uh, he looks very young for for somebody who's uh over 40. Well, that goes the same that he's very he's very nice about. It says, yeah, it goes for you too. Um, it was a, it was a smaller. It was a smaller uh, stack, uh for the master's men's physique.
Speaker 1:Um, however, I was also part of the open, short uh, and that was a very stacked class. It was just, yeah, it's a very, very competitive class, and after I went back to the judges feedback and they said fairly much what I was expected a little bit more lean tissue, a little bit more detail in the in the back, which I was surprised about. And then I went back to look back at the videos and photos and they're absolutely right that my, my back was just was just so flat, and I think it was probably that after the men's masters, I didn't have any time to go back to pump up again and, yeah, I was just there for three, three, four, five minutes and then everything just kind of I need to repump and I didn't have time to pump back but all in all, even though I did believe that, even though I did pump again, it was still a very competitive class and I accepted where I placed, given with all the athletes that were there. So it was exciting. I was very proud of what I could have brought and, yeah, there was just no way those guys could have beaten those Very well deserved for the same class.
Speaker 1:As for you, we were watching your tall. Your class was also very, very stacked, I think every year in WF Kelowna, these monsters all of a sudden just show up. It's a very small show. It compared to vancouver and calgary. Uh, it's about like what 60, 60, 70 people yeah, there's 60 70 people.
Speaker 2:And what I've noticed with the clona show is like, though we didn't have a ton more competitors last year. The caliber yeah, exactly, it was nice to see that like the though it was around the same size like we're getting more competitive athletes and I feel, like like three, four, five years ago, with the wmbfs, some of these smaller shows like the caliber wasn't kind of quite there, but now it's getting higher and higher and higher. So like it's just it's really cool to see it develop and like get to the same caliber as, like the CPA. So like that's. That's one thing that I'm really loving is just seeing it get more and more competitive. And, like we were chatting about before, like the, when I did the BC Cup, the WMUF Vancouver show actually had more competitors, actually had more competitors, and I could you could argue that it was maybe even more competitive, um, than the cpa bc cup.
Speaker 1:So like it's, it's very cool to see how everything is transitioning over to to that federation I, yeah, I agree, I agree, and this has got to be so happy for for leo right now. Um, we've got more different varieties of competitors coming in. People are starting to notice WNBA Vancouver, and I mean the WNBA Canada show, being a show worthy of having a competitive platform, which I'm actually very happy about. I'm excited that the caliber has stepped up and it's getting closer to what CPA has always been, always, always their what is that word? Their participants, I guess, say their athletes, their level of athletes there. However, it's still growing. I do think in a couple of, maybe a couple of years. I was hoping they're making more shows for WMF Canada around BC and I think in Alberta there's only two shows right, edmonton and Calgary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, edmonton and Calgary, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So they have two shows in BC, two shows in Alberta, one show in Saskatchewan, one show in Ontario. What else?
Speaker 2:Am I tripping? Did we talk about Winnipeg?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, there's Winnipeg, yeah, there's one in Manitoba, and I think that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Winnipeg's coming up right, Like I think Winnipeg's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Winnipeg is coming up next week. Do you have anybody competing in that?
Speaker 2:No, no, that's one show that. Yeah, I don't have any guys in to see how that show is, because I think that's a newer show too.
Speaker 1:Right like that's one of the newest ones, saskatchewan.
Speaker 2:Saskatchewan is a newer show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, saskatchewan just came out last year. Um, it's a fairly small show, uh, to be believed. It's their first year uh arranging it. I think this year is going to be the second year. We're not sure what the uh population is either. With winnipeg, I think dino's in in charge of that.
Speaker 1:Um, however, I do have a. I do have an athlete who's going to be in winnipeg and a bikini athlete, so this is going to be fun. Uh, she, she's got a very good shape. I'm actually very proud of how how far she's come already. Uh, this is going to be her first show, well, second show. She did her first show last year in calgary and uh, this time she's doing her uh, her second attempt in, uh in in winnipeg. In winnipeg she's, she lives there, so it's it's local for her. I'm very excited. So next week she's going to be doing her peak week protocols and but speaking of which, uh, she was thinking also about doing Calgary. So, after Winnipeg, and then probably just stay in maintenance or slight surplus all the way until what is that? In October?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's one week earlier than last year. I think it's October 11th Because I know before they think it's October 11th Because I know before they had it like October 28th and 27th, 28th or something. It was always on the same weekend as Halloween. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I remember we didn't celebrate Halloween pretty much every year just because of the show and stuff. So I was like, oh, this year we might be able to go do some stuff.
Speaker 1:I wonder if that's why they transitioned it to one week before or what I don't know, because it's so weird that every like, even this year, I know calgary always has the same date as the van city showdown in vancouver. Here it's also a very, very big show, uh from the cpa, uh, they always have them the same weekend. This year even the even the van city showdown is, I think they're doing a late september, so the last week of september instead of the end of uh again in halloween. So I'm not sure if uh, yeah, what? Probably the scheduling from from the venues.
Speaker 2:It perhaps yeah, or maybe they just found like people with like halloween weekend. Maybe they don't get as many people showing up, or I don't know. Yeah, well, the county show Halloween weekend, maybe they don't get as many people showing up. The Calgary show was massive. I don't think that would be a big issue, especially for bodybuilders. Bodybuilders generally aren't crazy partyhairs.
Speaker 1:anyway, are you going to the Calgary one now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll be going. I've got one athlete doing men's physique so far. I'll probably pick up some more guys going into that show as well. I did have another guy that was thinking about doing it. Um, but we're gonna. We decided to give it a little bit more time, put on some more size and possibly do one uh, next year, the year after a pro show or amateur.
Speaker 1:Uh, amateur show, yeah, amateur, okay. Okay, so does he stay? Is he local there or is he traveling?
Speaker 2:uh, he's, he's an amateur right now, so he's he traveling, he's in Edmonton right now, so he's got really good genetics. So I feel like we continue having him grow and, yeah, in a year's time he'll be in a good spot. I think he's only been training consistently for eight months and the amount of size he's already packed on is pretty impressive. So I'm excited to see, with extending that more, uh, how like crazy he could look, even just for his first ever show.
Speaker 1:So first show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no damn that's, that's exciting, that's exciting, yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, I did have charlotte reach out and ask if, uh, I might be available for the judging panel for Calgary, nice. So we'll, we'll see. We don't. We're not sure about that, but if my, but if my athlete, the, the one that's going to do Winnipeg, if she's going to go, then I can't really judge for the women's division Makes sense.
Speaker 2:So we'll see.
Speaker 1:you can see you could do like the men's, but just yeah, not do the yeah, and then it's going to be a hassle for them because they're going to have to find someone to substitute me makes sense.
Speaker 2:Well, emma, she's actually thinking about uh doing the test judging as well, like she's. She was actually thinking about maybe trying it for the the edmonton show.
Speaker 1:Um, but uh, yeah yeah'll see, ask her to do it. I think you have, I don't know. I found it pretty easy. There were some tough calls that Leo gave me some feedback but yeah, I think their passing rate is actually quite high. I think you need like a 90 to 95% matching rate with the other judges, with the judges panel, in order for you to pass. Yeah, yeah, but it's fun, it's really fun.
Speaker 2:I know when I did, the placings are within a certain range and you're good, but if there's ones that are way off, then they knock you a bit.
Speaker 1:You've done one right, You've done one test judge panel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did one. Was it the Calgary Amateur? Yeah, I think it was the Calgary Am. It was really good. I think there was the only one class where I kind of got messed up because, like I can't remember, the lady head judge she placed the guy that won that class on the right side. So it was really messing with me because.
Speaker 2:I was like why is this person so? But like they were saying, like sometimes they'll just do that If there's a person they know won the whole show, like 100, sometimes they'll put them off to the side. I still don't like that too much because then sometimes that competitor will be like what's going on, did I just lose? The guy might like last right now. So I feel like it's probably not the best thing to do when you have your competitors on stage, when most of the time if you're dead center you're winning. But I guess it's a way to test somebody's ability to be humble yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, I don't remember who the head judge is for edmonton. Do you is it? Is it a lady or is it a guy? Who's the head judge for uh, uh, for edmonton last year?
Speaker 2:I'm trying to think who it was. It wasn't leo, right? I don't think so, like it could have been, but I feel like it was the other, the other lady that did the calvary show, that was the head judge or maybe it was sorry.
Speaker 1:What's that?
Speaker 2:katie the guy, uh, that lady with glasses yeah, yeah, I think it might have been her. Um, I know ron. Is it ron? The other head judge that sometimes, or is it Ron?
Speaker 1:No, ron is he's a camera guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's another guy that sometimes does the is the lead judge person. I can't remember his name, but he used to play bodybuilder. He's a massive dude. Um, I'm trying to think what I don't know it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:It don't matter, we'll find out. We'll find out who.
Speaker 1:Uh, once edmonton comes up, we'll find out who it is yeah, for sure, man for sure, speaking of which, um, I think it's a good it's, I think it's a good time now for for for, perhaps for us to uh, I just wanted to ask a little bit about this. So you have clients going to shows. I have clients going to shows as well, probably. I'll just ask this, like I would probably do, like I'm very picky when I take clients, there are some requirements that I want them to meet in order in terms of training or nutrition. There's a specific way that I would like them to do things, and I pretty much like it when they follow those rules and then, uh, so there's just less margin of an error perhaps. Let me just probably like bring an example for training. I think training is a good one. Um, like, are there any protocols in training that you would you like your athletes to follow?
Speaker 1:training like uh, in terms of like technique that they're utilizing yeah, nuances, technique, nuances um or or even variations and stuff like that yeah.
Speaker 2:So like, uh, in terms of technique, like all my athletes, especially ones that are competing, especially ones, um, that were really trying to maximize everything, like I always like to get form videos from them to ensure, okay, like what their tempo is looking like, what, um their depth looking like, um, the um how things are getting executed, like if they're towards the end of the set, like other muscle groups and stuff are getting involved due to them, like shifting their weight a certain way or their form starting to break down.
Speaker 2:So I always like to get like those form videos, just to see get what's what's going on with your, with your techniques, especially because I do find individuals, especially that I'm coaching.
Speaker 2:If there's certain movements like oh man, I'm not really liking this movement too much, I'll get them to send me a video of them performing that exercise, that next time they do it, just so I can see what is going on. Because a lot of times with certain movements, there's going to be certain movements where people really enjoy or it feels really good on them, and there's going to be some movements that just don't fit their structure as well. Where it feels really good on them and there's some movements that just don't fit their structure as well, but most of the time it's just the way that people are executing it. So if you can execute it the proper way, if you can have, like, say, the proper rib position with, like, a pull down, if you are bracing adequately, if you're using the appropriate tampon, getting the appropriate range, of motion, which oftentimes, if somebody hasn't videoed themselves before, most people are cutting the range of motion more than they think they are.
Speaker 2:So being able to get a little bit more range of motion out of them, I find, can go a long way. Is there? What about you, and is there any strategies that you've been using lately with your clients?
Speaker 1:yeah. So I think you make a pretty good point is just asking them to video themselves. The only struggle is because there's just so many exercise executions. Let's say, you put in a training block, for example, we have them probably work for four days a week or maybe five days a week of training days, and then we probably have different angles for incline bench for just example, and it's a little challenging for them to actually record every single exercise and critique every single one of them. Even you have the time and you know they they might find a hassle because they have to find an angle in a in a public gym. So those are some of the questions we'll probably run into in later.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, I do ask them to record it and oftentimes range of motion is something that I think you're you're absolutely right that, uh, a little bit more than what we expected. Also, tempo I would find this is something that they they struggle with as well. They say it's like, oh no, it's actually very slow, but once you record it it's actually a lot faster than they think. I understand it because, even though when we do it it does feel like forever when you're actually doing that. Three seconds, uh, eccentric, uh, you feel three seconds, but when you look at it it's just two or one and yeah, so three second does feel a lot longer than what it actually is when you look at it from a video standpoint. So tempo is going to be most of the uh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think both tempo and range of motion is one of the uh major ones that I critique most. Uh, and I think taking it to failure is also the. The other aspect as well. Uh is like do you have them go absolutely to failure for you to see, or what does absolutely failure for you look like when you critique uh?
Speaker 2:so it it depends on the movement.
Speaker 2:if it's a machine-based movement, uh, usually like when they go to the point where they can't actually move it anymore.
Speaker 2:If it's something like, say, like a romanian deadlift or like a very like more complex movement, romanian deadlift, or like a very like more complex movement, once that technique is shifting a lot, that's kind of when I call it, because if you're, if you're just going based off of moving the bar up to the top and then back down, like you can have your, your technique work so much, then you're just not placing the attention on the target tissues and you get issues like that and a lot of times injuries and, yeah, a lot of stuff can happen there. So with most movements, especially isolation movements, I literally get them to go to the point where they can't move it anymore. If we're going to like complete failure, but then, like some people will argue, like zero RRIs, where you can do one more repetition, so like stopping when you know like in that next repetition you do you're not going to be able to get a full repetition, that would be like a zero r, but yeah if you're going to absolute failure.
Speaker 2:That would be with an isolation movement.
Speaker 2:How I would go about it is, yeah, going to the point where you cannot move it anymore and with some movements like if it's a back movement, even going into some length and partials towards the end, because yeah, like that shortened position with any back movement that's going to fatigue a lot quicker than that lengthened portion. So if you're always just stopping once you like, say with a pull down when you can get it below your chin, you might be leaving some gains you could say on the table if you're always stopping there. So having some sets going, going into partials usually like the last set of the exercise I I generally recommend most my athletes do okay, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:That makes sense. Um, do do most of your. Uh athletes just train by themselves or do they have a workout partner?
Speaker 2:I would say most of them train by themselves. There's a couple that will train with buddies and stuff like that, but I would say probably like 90 of them are training by themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so this is also some of the things that I would like just to bring up. If you have a training buddy, I mean it's, it's nice, uh, if.
Speaker 1:But then we assign you with a training program and we expect you to follow that protocols and those programs. And if your buddy isn't on the same goals as you, then it's going to create a little bit of an argument. Say, your buddy wants to do something else but you have a program to follow. But having a dream, the benefits of that is having someone there to just spot you on that sticky spot and really push. So that's why I wanted to bring up this training to failure thing is what failure looks like?
Speaker 1:For for every individual may be different and there are just some parts of the range of motion that you still have a couple reps left, especially in the shortened position and in the lengthened partials. Do you find that in some lengthened partials there is this sticky spot from the most lengthened, let's say, for a bicep curl, the most lengthened part to about 25 percent of the range of motion is always the hardest. And according to there's a podcast we listened to. I listened to from 3dmj, like then when I think it was brian, minor jeff and somebody else, I don't know who else. Uh, they were talking about the lengthened partials. Is you sort of stop the range of motion if it's less than 25 of the entire range of motion yeah, I would say that's.
Speaker 2:That's probably a good idea. So you're not just freaking, having like like that much yeah, or is this an ad too much fatigue, and I don't think you'll get too much out of that, though there is some research on just like doing extreme stretching with like calf raises and like even like holding a pec fly at the bottom for an extended period of time, like I think that could potentially actually have a benefit. So if you're going to complete failure with partials and then getting the point and just holding that position, there could be an argument, uh, for doing that as well. But I think there's always a fine balance too, especially in prep. If you're doing all these crazy partials and like loaded stretching, like, that's also going to create fatigue, and if you're very lean, if your joints are a little bit more sensitive, doing a lot of that may not feel too great and you might burn yourself out.
Speaker 2:So I do think there's a time and place for more of that stuff, think there's a time and place for more of that stuff and there's a time and place to kind of pull back just a little bit. I know for me, with this last prep, like towards the last couple weeks, like I was still using pretty much the same volume, I was just taking out some of those lengthened partials because I know I was getting pretty destroyed by them. So I'm like, okay, I'll pull back on those, um still do it on, like the last set, but um, yeah, there's fine balance for sure yeah, I agree, I agree.
Speaker 1:So, um, and then otherwise, the training. I think the training aspect. There was also a couple of nuances that we we could also discuss. As we just rewind back to something that you said about some angles that work with specific athletes. I'll just take a, an incline press, for example. You know there's a, I know there's some people who work better with a 45 degree hand grip and some little bit more pronated in in in terms of that, and what would you say? Is there going to be like a huge difference for you, or is there going to be? What would you say? Is there going to be a huge difference?
Speaker 2:for you I would say, yeah, with so many people out there, there's so many arguments for having more flared, for more talked, and I feel like there's such an overwhelming amount of information on social media that it can get a lot of people thinking like, oh, am I doing the right thing?
Speaker 2:Or like what is this right, this right? And like a lot of times the first thing I come down is like how it's feeling on that individual. Like, typically, if you are feeling a good amount of tension in that stretch at the bottom, if you're using a 45 in your upper chest, I would say it's, it's probably a good idea. Um, if, yeah, you're flaring your elbows out a lot and your shoulders have a lot of discomfort, you you're not really feeling your chest, then I would say for you as an individual, that may not be the most beneficial. But in terms of the path, the arm path, with the upper chest fibers I think I got this from Alfred Nunez where he talks about on the top you want your hand position to be directly over top of your clavicular head, of your chest.
Speaker 2:When you're coming up here some people go too high and be directly over their shoulders and then the tension can kind of go into that so just looking at the plane of motion and like thinking about where the bicep and the pec attacks is, like the clavicular head, and like thinking about shortening that, so bicep squeezing into like that clavicle head as much as you can Like that's kind of the arm path you want.
Speaker 2:So when you are doing that pressing, try to find that arm path that is going to be in that direction that you're wanting. Another thing with like incline pressing like some people flare their ribs a lot and have they almost turn it into like a flat press, for, like their sternal head is of their chest, their mid fibers or whatever are getting more used than like the upper fibers. So I've actually been playing with keeping my ribs a little bit more down and then actually having the bench not quite so inclined, because the more inclined you have the bench, the more arch like, the more it kind of takes away that natural arch.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, there's a lot of nuances that we could use.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I agree with what you actually just said just now, like having the ribs less flare, because I've been starting to doing that more than six months a little bit more than six months now, understanding that upper chest and delts were one of my weaknesses from stepping on stage and even even from the Kelowna show, the that was also one of the feedbacks that I've actually got was a little bit more fullness into the upper pecs as well.
Speaker 1:It's developed over a good to the past six months just by using this nuance, by not flaring as much and elevating my feet, and I found that elevation from the feet really helps me pushing the ribs down. Maybe I have short legs and the benches are really high, and but then that's. That's just something I play with, allowing me to get a bigger, deeper stretch onto my upper back and my front delts. So those are some of the nuances I personally use. But going back to where you were taking that nuance from Alberta Nunes and having that palm or that bicep coming into the cliff of your head, how would you ask your athlete to record that?
Speaker 2:That's going to be a very difficult uh angle to to film yeah, so usually I'll have them, like, if they have a tripod, that works great. If they don't, I'll put have them put their phone on like a bench beside them or put it down on the ground, like there's gonna be if they have a friend um with them, like that's where it's super handy if they know someone from the gym to film them. I I do generally try to encourage, like, hey, like, maybe get like one of these small tripods you can get it once where they have a magnet where you can put it on something to make it more discreet. But, yeah, being able to see it, it just helps you out with the angling. If again, like I can only get it from the ground, usually I can still see enough to kind of see what's going on there. But that's where just the feedback from them. If they're saying okay, my shoulders, I'm only feeling my shoulders, it feels off, usually that's a sign that something's not moving correctly, so we'll continue making small to minor adjustments until
Speaker 2:they're like okay, I'm feeling it more in my chest now, I'm getting that better connection.
Speaker 2:Um.
Speaker 2:So, going, based off how they're feeling, what I can see from that movement perspective, um, and usually, yeah, like the loads you're using, like, if you're very, like, shoulder dominant, like I I used to be very shoulder dominant with my pressing.
Speaker 2:Once I started to actually be able to utilize my chest a bit better, like my chest was underdeveloped so I actually had to pull back a decent amount on the weight, but then it progressed really quickly. So that's usually a good sign that you're using the target tissues and just, yeah, making sure that the tempo, the technique stays similar throughout the whole training block, because that's for some people, like I know, even for me, sometimes the eagle gets in the way and I'm like, oh, I want to get this pr and then all of a sudden you see like I'm coming down a little bit quicker, I'm more like really getting shaky shoulders are getting a bit more involved. So, being able to like put that eagle to the side and just make sure you're keeping that target muscle to the flame is is definitely what I try to try to get my athletes to do.
Speaker 1:I agree, yeah, and hypertrophy, I think that's also one thing. That's uh, uh, very forgiving. Um, yeah, I do, we do have. I do have a couple of athletes who wants, who are interested in doing power lifting, and then that's another. Just that's another story, uh. But yeah, in terms of hypertrophy, I think there's there's so much room for error that we can just change up the same motion for for, let's say, we've applied for a dumbbell incline press, and if that doesn't work for that athlete, we can easily change it to the same motion for a machine. Incline press, for example, doesn't work for that athlete, we can easily change it to the same motion for a machine incline press, for example. So I think that's one of the benefits for hypertrophy. I think that's very very cool.
Speaker 1:And just speaking a little bit more about the exercise executions, um, what is one exercise that you find to be not not a favorite, but, uh, something that you find that a lot of athletes react very well with?
Speaker 2:um, mainly, I would say like I'll probably take this from coach chasm but like with that iliac row, I found just getting those lower lat fibers a bit more involved and getting that built up a bit more. I found doing those Iliac pulldowns generally for most people feel pretty good and they can stay locked in. If you can get a machine where it kind of has that same arm path, it's even better. You can stay really locked in If you're using it with like a bench.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, sometimes it can be a little annoying to set up um, but I I have noticed from just a nice mind muscle connection to get like the proper plane of motion, range of motion, stuff like that those can be a really effective movement for getting those kind of lower, lower lat fibers um, but yeah, I would say that's probably like my favorite one, like cause a lot of people, especially if they're kind of more rowy or like they've been following a lot of these guys that are doing just the typical like um, vertical and like the horizontal pulling and stuff like that, with arms fired. Maybe arms like and that's like a lot of people probably weren't doing enough like elbows tucked movements with like the pull downs or with the rowing, so sometimes the upper back is just so developed but those lower region of the lats aren't quite there, so being able to do some of those Iliac either doing the rows or the, the, the pull downs can be definitely useful.
Speaker 1:That is also one of my favorite ones to. To assign yeah, the Iliac pull downs can be definitely useful. That is also one of my favorite ones to um to assign yeah, the iliac pull downs. I think that many, many athletes respond very, very well with. They get the pump almost instantly.
Speaker 1:Now the only thing that I do find is some individuals I would say the majority of the individuals that I work with when they do the iliac rows, they actually fatigue their rear delts quicker than like before their lower lats or their lats actually start to kick in. So majority of my athletes have this response, this particular response, and so I usually have to just make them either hustle through it or they. It's not painful to them, it's just they fatigue. It's either I make them hustle through it or we's not painful them, it's just they fatigue. It's either I make them hustle through it or we have to change the angle of the torso in order for them to get a little bit more stimulus before their rear delts actually fatigue. Um, I was like this myself until I changed the the angle of my torso. Um, do you have any clients that may fatigue another body fat before that?
Speaker 2:that's actually kind of funny. Like I was just helping emma with this that other day and she was getting her workouts a bit more involved.
Speaker 2:Um, I was like what the qi gave her was just to allow that shoulder to naturally elevate a little bit at the top and then have that natural depression at the way down, and it got a little bit less of that. Um. But I think it's also like sometimes when we're doing that motion, if you pull back too far, like if you pull back so that your arm is past your torso, you're going to get a decent amount of redoubt activation there. So I usually just come down so that the arm is pretty much parallel to the body or just slightly in front of it, and then go back up and then that's how I've noticed to get a little less uh of the rear delt involved and just focusing more on, like that, shoulder elevation and then depression all the way down.
Speaker 2:Generally you can get a bit of a better mind muscle connection um, I do notice, yeah, if you can have a slight twist this way and pull around, you can feel an even deeper stretch. I do notice with some people that they're very tight with their shoulders or if they don't have the best rib cage control, sometimes their arms can get a bit more indominant. So just keeping the ribs just slightly down. Slight bit of tension on the abs while you're doing it can help keep that target or keep your back a bit more engaged.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree that's. That's a really, really good point. And also, I see from this is I'm just talking about something else now. So I think that, yeah, I think that would probably wrap up a pretty good uh for the lat pull down and favorite exercise, but it was something I realized. I do want to like take this opportunity to ask. From your stories, I do see that you've been doing a lot more hammer curls compared to before or you just probably didn't record them, but I did realize that you're starting to incorporate a lot more hammer curls. Is there a reason for that?
Speaker 2:um, I've just had them in there, uh, because I was loosely following alberto nunez's program, like with his, um, his group, like I I still kind of utilize some of those things. I will look in there and I'll pull some exercises and I've been just finding like, uh, for me to get the brachialis like my forms still aren't like fully, uh, like I feel like they could get a little bit bigger too. So hitting forms hitting the brachialis a little bit more um to have that pop and I know um for just like biceps and everything like you can just make it look a little pop a little bit more.
Speaker 2:I know, with a lot of pulling motions you're kind of using the brachialis quite a bit as well so it might not necessarily be needed in programming, but it's a nice variation. I've been doing a lot of like just preacher curls as well, and I've found those have just worked really well.
Speaker 2:My arms generally respond real quick to most things, so I don't have to put too much volume on it, so yeah, it's just been a bit of a experimentation having those in and uh, yeah, I would say for a bicep movement, they're probably one of the last ones that you probably want to throw in, um, compared to like the other movements out there, um, but uh, yeah, yeah, I've just been kind of playing around with them yeah, and lucky you for for your arms to respond like quite well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my arms are stubborn, they're. They don't respond. Well, I've had my regular upper body, so triceps and biceps, already taking part in in a lot of the push-pull movements and I have one extra day so I work out five. There's one extra day where I just purely work on delts and arms and they still don't grow. The funny thing is.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you've experienced this too, but I have noticed sometimes, when I have phases where I'm really prioritizing a certain muscle group and I'm putting a lot of volume towards it, like sometimes it almost seems like a little stagnant and then I'll have like a little bit of a break from it and pull the volume down and that's where I see the most growth and like sometimes I I think that could just be like that super compensation effect. After that maybe that work kind of helped and you just recovered more um, and it led to a bit more of that. But then there's sometimes I'm like oh, maybe like that, just having some blocks where the volume is a little bit low after like a quite heavy volume block might be a useful thing.
Speaker 2:I don't know if there's any kind of research around that but yeah, I definitely have noticed that in myself, even with my back. I've had times where I'm doing less back movements and it's like my back's almost responding more.
Speaker 2:So I don't know if I may be getting too past the point of like what's that term that Mike Izzardel uses maximum recovery volume. So I don't know if sometimes I'm maybe pushing a little too hard over that, but it's, it's tough because it's like, like the volume I'm using isn't anything insane. Like the most amount of volume I'm using is maybe like 16 sets um per that body part, um. So it's it's not like I'm going into like what some people would like 30 sets or possibly even 40 for some guys that are chasing crazy volume but I think it's just the amount of load I'm able to use with my back makes it. So there's a lot of fatigue buildup and I can get quite effective sets with it. So I, yeah, I find there's just that fine balance between that volume. They were just knowing how much to push up and if you're not noticing the response.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's time. I'll have a block where you pull the volume down. See how your body responds there, see how the recovery is, see how the strength increases are, Because I do notice when I pull down the volume too, I'm able to have greater increases in strength often. So yeah definitely a fine balance there, for sure.
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree, but yeah, for just overall, I think we could just play around with the programming that way and taking out those specific body parts for maybe like a block or two, and then just reintroduce it after that. But, however, myself, two and then just reintroduce it after that. But, however, myself, no, no, my biceps are very stubborn. My triceps actually grew from the higher volume, so I'm quite happy about that during this off season and yeah, but my biceps are just very, very stubborn. It is what it is. Maybe I'm just not eating enough. We're just gonna eat like a whole damn more.
Speaker 2:No, no, like again, like I think it's your physique from this past or this the past show to like, I think, what three years ago, like again, like you do have more density, like you really see it in your chest, even, like your arms and shoulders, like they do look like they've come up. Um, so like I wouldn't say. Have you measured your biceps too and like compared them till last time, or just going based off visuals?
Speaker 1:no, but what I did was I've took and I've taken, I've taken, um the the photos from 2022 and I've just kind of overlapped them together from uh this year. Oh, by the way, did you, oh, did you get ron's uh photos yet?
Speaker 2:no, not yet.
Speaker 1:No, okay, well, I for some reason my package. There's one photo of you. He threw it in there. It was just you all by yourself, and then, um, anyways, I could share. I could share those photos with you as well. We've got the group ones with you and emma in it as well. Perfect, yeah. But anyways, going back to that, I've kind of just overlap myself together and, yeah, you're definitely right, we see, I could definitely see a big improvement in the entire body. There's definitely an overall mass increase, so I'm quite happy about that.
Speaker 1:Um, there is something I did notice which I think it also applies to all future athletes, or even if you're currently going to compete as well the.
Speaker 1:I do find the older you get as an age and the training years that you've been even for yourself, you've been training for 14 years now the density of your muscle looks so well, it's less watery, you can see a lot more striations into it and it looks so much mature, and once you're on stage with this type of maturity in your muscles, it pops out so much more, and so this will just have to come with years. As a natural bodybuilder, unfortunately, uh, I do find it like they the unless you have like, just like your client who has like crazy genetics, and that's just another story. And they're like what is the percentage of you know crazy genetics in natural bodybuilding? It's, it's not a lot. They are getting better. Uh, over the years we have less of them I think 10, 15 years ago compared to now. Uh, there's a lot more information out there and somehow people are just growing up and having like amazing genetics. It's weird, the funny, funny thing.
Speaker 2:You say that because, like my brother just had a kid and like his kid is so much bigger than what we were as a kid, so I feel like the people are just getting better with feeding their kids properly, make sure they're very nutritious, doing the right things, and I feel like kids are literally just getting bigger and bigger and bigger, um, as time goes on. So like I feel like give it another 20 years and like the, the natural bodybuilders I feel like are going to 20 years and like the natural bodybuilders I feel like are going to be even crazier in terms of their genetics and especially if they're starting young and they're having higher protein diets at a younger age and having a proper lifestyle, and like I think all those things are going to tie into having some pretty crazy level of bodybuilders even in the natural space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't imagine what it's going to be like. But, um, for all of those who are currently competing, what would be some of um, your good advice, now you're done your season? Um, it's still what early, it's still spring. Uh, in the, there's a ton of shows upcoming. There's a ton of upcoming shows for the cpa over the summer. Uh, there's a couple more shows in the bmvf before the spring season ends. And then there's the summer season. Wait, is it the summer season? Yeah, the summer season. June, late june, edmonton, and then there's ontario and saskatchewan and late summer, and then, yeah, and I think that's calgary.
Speaker 2:Holy crap, that's pretty quick yeah, yeah like in terms of advice for them like if you're planning on doing a fall show, like you got to get started right away, like don't be putting it off. Because that's again like I think we've talked about this quite a bit is, most people start too heavy, too high body fat. They try to go too quick. They start like eight weeks out or sometimes even less than that, and then they just don't get to where they need to be. They diet aggressively, they feel really terrible during that diet and they rebound up and yeah. So I would say like if you are planning on doing a show within, like the fall, like you should be already started. You should be already going into a fat loss phase, making sure that you're going into it.
Speaker 2:Making sure that you haven't been dieting this whole time too. So like if you were kind of just doing a cut for the summer and you've lost like 1520 pounds or something like that and maybe you are thinking about doing a show in the fall, it might be a good time to pull back, come up to maintenance, refresh yourself a little bit and then go back into it, just so you're not extending that deficit for too long. As I do notice, a lot of times when people are in that deficit for too long or in that fat loss phase, losing weight for too long, things start to downregulate over time. So if you can talk yourself up from time to time, it's always good.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, as for shows that are coming up, I'm sure most of you guys are probably already in your competition prep, already diving down. Uh, again, for the last couple weeks leading to the show. Um, try not to push things too extreme. The last couple weeks, like that's where I feel like some people get things wrong is they try to be so aggressive the last two weeks leading into the show and they're trying to peak themselves and like it's just your body's not responding too well to the peaking um, just because you're so depleted.
Speaker 2:So yeah, make sure, pulling back um two weeks, especially that last week before the show, pulling back on a cardio, making sure that you are going to replenish those glycogen stores before that show so you can feel out and look your best on stage.
Speaker 1:I agree. So that's a very, very good tip. So also, I'm just going to add to that is what we like to also do is well, personally, I like to do is even pull back from training, have training, just pull back. We don't want to put too much stress on the body just before your show. Your show, you're supposed to look really good, um, so let your body rest and shine. Um, too much, too much stress is also just going to cause you respond to respond food just a little bit differently. Uh, hunger level spiking, as even you just said. Pull back on that prior, like two weeks, and then we'll likely to just feed you into the show and then have your body look the best on stage. But yeah, I think that sums up pretty much what I want to say. Is there anything else you wanted to add?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say with like. Now that you mentioned with like, the stress too, I remember reading one of the papers talking about stress and your ability to take out carbohydrates and, um, some of them is glycogen and like, if cortisol levels are high, like your body's actually has a hard time storing things. So, yeah, keep things definitely, uh, less stressful during peak. We pull back on the training a little bit, um, and just ensure that. Because one thing I had noticed with people, I noticed with myself during peak week, is like we're almost scared to not do as much activity and psychologically, sometimes we can think, oh, we're not burning enough calories, oh, we're not gonna, we're gonna gain fat, like we think with our emotions rather than rational thoughts sometimes.
Speaker 2:So, knowing that, okay, even if you are pulling back on steps a little bit, even if you're pulling back on training, this is going to give you a better look. It's not going to make you gain fat. It's not going to make you look worse on stage. If you're killing yourself in the gym, if you're restricting calories even more, if you're trying to do something extreme during peak week, that's going to lead to a worse look. So, just being okay with, like, pulling back and knowing that, because I don't know if you deal with that with some of your clients too, where, like peak week, where they're like, oh man, it's so hard to pull back on like the weights I'm using, and then like going too far, and then like getting all sore and it's like, no, do you want to pull back on that fatigue that's going to make you look better?
Speaker 2:um, so, yeah, that's, that's the last point I just want to make there yeah, I think we did cover quite a bit of information here.
Speaker 1:I hope it does help a lot of you and give you some insights on some protocols that we do for approaching peak week and some mainly, I think some nuances for training. That's probably one of our main goals is to share on some of the training protocols and nuances that we wanted to share, making sure we're hitting any specific muscle groups and specific areas of muscle groups. That's the whole idea of natural bodybuilding is we want to hit isolated muscle groups in with nuances and try our best to hit them. But yeah, I think we'll probably just wrap up the episode here. So thank you, guys for listening. We appreciate your time and efforts here. If you like the video or if you like the audio, please like and leave us a message. And if you have, if you guys have any questions on prepping and if you want or if you want to plan your next prep. Uh, you know, please reach out to any of us. We'll leave our instagram handle. You just slide us a dm and we have. You have a link in your bios, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, so you can either um fill out the application in my bio or you can just dm me physique and I can reach out to you yeah, so same here.
Speaker 1:I do have a. I do have a link in my bio, so just click in there and fill out the information or just slide me a DM. Even just hey is okay for me. So yeah, thank you, thank you guys for listening. Stay tuned. We'll see you guys soon. Bye, see ya.