Lifting Nerds
Adrian Ma and Brandon Emslie share discussions and interviews with the fitness community's best science-based researchers and coaches.
Lifting Nerds
Massage Therapy and Bodybuilding with James Wheeler
Manual therapy plays an essential role in enhancing athletic performance and recovery. James Wheeler shares valuable insights into how identifying and treating underlying issues can prevent injuries and improve well-being for athletes at all levels.
• Introduction of James Wheeler and his expertise in manual therapy
• Discussion about the significance of manual therapy in athletic performance
• Overview of integrated therapy models combining treatment and training
• Explanation of fascial cutting and its benefits for bodybuilders
• Emphasis on the importance of home care for recovery
• Exploration of controversies surrounding manual therapy effectiveness
• Guidance on choosing the right therapist for individual needs
0:02 Health and Wellness Therapies and Trends
8:31 Enhancing Physique for Bodybuilding Events
20:04 Importance of Home Care in Therapy
29:44 Debating the Value of Manual Therapy
35:09 Manual Therapy and Therapist Quality
IG: @liftingnerds
Youtube: liftingnerds
Host
@_adrianma
@brandonemslie
welcome everybody back to our fourth episode, brandon right of the season I think so man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think four okay yeah, so we have our fourth uh episode here today. Uh, today we have a slightly different guest on our channel. We used to have a lot of competitive bodybuilders. You know, we had uh brian minor a couple times. We had uh, we had the pleasure of having eric helms, we had uh you, we have me uh all these, like we had leo king recently. So that was that was uh exciting. Today we wanted to take a different path and talk a little bit about in the in a sense of health and wellness. So we have a new friend of ours for me at least, mr James Wheeler. So welcome to the show, buddy, I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day to come and speak with us. So, yeah, just tell our audiences who you are.
Speaker 3:Yes, thank you, and good morning. I appreciate the invitation to be here. Yes, thank you, and good morning, I appreciate the invitation to be here. Well, my name's James Wheeler. I'm a registered massage therapist, fascial stretch therapist and neurokinetic therapist. I use those three techniques pretty much on a daily basis to treat my patients.
Speaker 3:So a little background on myself. I've been involved in sport my whole life, played at semi-professional and professional level at two different sports. So I've certainly been exposed to quite a bit of manual therapy and had my fair share of injuries along the way, as most athletes do. And that's primarily what pointed me in the direction of doing what I do on a regular basis is just seeing and knowing what these therapies can do for the human body and how they allow you to continue, not only through sport at a at whatever level, but more just daily living, helping certain issues and dealing with people's ailments and problems on a daily basis, not only mentally, not only physically, but mentally as well.
Speaker 3:Not sure if you've heard, but registered massage therapists tend to be clinical counselors at the same time as well. So yeah, we quite often know our patients better than their spouses when it's become a long-term thing. So that's kind of my background academically in the health field health sciences, anatomical sciences so getting to understand the body much better, which, in my own personal opinion, is the probably the most important thing. Moving forward is, if you don't know what the tissue is like and how it operates, how are you supposed to be able to do anything with it? Um, I think we'll get to that a little bit later. Brandon, you've had the distinct pleasure or displeasure, depending on how you look at it of going through some of my, my treatments, so I'm sure you'll have some insight there as well. Um, but yeah, I got to know brandon through working um at, uh, a gym we won't mention the name of it uh, however, uh got to know brandon quite well, um, with his personal training at that location and uh, yeah, definitely a distinct pleasure working with you, brandon.
Speaker 3:You as well. James yeah, absolutely, and gotten to know quite a bit more about what you're going through. As far as the bodybuilding, I have worked with the Okanagan Powerlifting Association. I've attended several of their events that they hold at gym in where is that, vernon? And so that was both at a local as well as a national level. I believe there were a few records broken at the last event that I attended, so I'm quite familiar with the world of bodybuilding, at least in the power lifting sense of things.
Speaker 3:My interests are coming to work every day. Basically's a treat puzzles all day long, and my philosophy tends to be find what the problem is, treat the problem. Symptoms, treat those as well. Symptoms go away if the problem is solved, and so that's kind of my. My niche is that's where I spend most of my time is really truly trying to find out what the physical problem is, because most people's problems present as symptoms, not as the problem, but they steer you in the right direction to find out what that problem is. That's basically it in a nutshell. I'm still pretty active guy like I'm. I'm not the master at anything, but I'm good at a lot of things, but I take my work pretty serious. Uh, I'm, I'm a bit of a study geek. I do lots and lots of reading on new studies, orthopedically as well as within my field itself. So that's basically it in a nutshell. Um, if there's anything else that you want to know, please fire away any questions yes, I actually do, since brandy knows you well and I don't.
Speaker 1:Um, there is a couple of uh things that popped out, and probably first of my questions is you've mentioned you're an rmt. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. How long have you been in rmt?
Speaker 3:I started my schooling back in 11 um. It was a three year quite comprehensive course, so I've been treating now for 10 years.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, Wow. So it's just popped out to me, since you know, my wife is currently studying RMT right now. I think this is her last year. Oh good, Congratulations Before she goes. Yeah, she finishes this year and then so she gets to do the board exam next spring. Is that March? Yeah, March April, that's when the board exam is right.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's. It changes from year to year and how RMT and now the kind of the moving forward, is changing compared to what RMT was, you know, five, six years before.
Speaker 1:So since being, she tells me, her professors even tell her and some other clinics are even talking about it, saying that RMTs right now are much more demanding than physiotherapists. So the demand is very, very high all over BC, actually all over Canada, for RMTs right now. So maybe I'll sort of fire up with. The first question is places like pre-therapy and myo-detox somewhere out in the West. I'm not sure if you've heard of myo-detox.
Speaker 1:I mean, I I've explored a little bit but I'm not really that familiar with the details okay, yeah, so what this trend is kind of pushing right now there's a start, all started up with pure therapy, where they sort of have a little bit more well-developed gym within the clinic and they will have uh rmts, that physios, they have kairos, they have all sorts of kines, they have all sorts of therapists in that clinic and what they start doing is they'll do manual therapy, probably for the first half of the session and then they'll switch into a little bit more of a strength training to strengthen muscles and joints and stuff like that for the remaining half of the session. Have you perhaps heard of this trend?
Speaker 3:remaining half of the session. Have you perhaps heard of this trend? Well, interestingly enough, it's a trend for the general public, but this is the way professional sports has been covered for many, many years. So they're kind of they're taking the professional, they're taking a professional model and developing it into the general public. So this isn't something that's new. It's new to the market that it's being marketed to. But generally, this has been around for as long as I can recall, at least since I've been playing sports in maybe the 60s, when you had your professional hockey players having a hamburger and a cigarette. In between periods, times have changed and the development has been more into academic programs, sport related, in which they incorporate this technique, where they have treatment training as well, as you know, specific training within the sport itself. So I'm very familiar with that.
Speaker 2:Uh, as opposed to how it's being marketed to the general public, I just want to hop on here and say, yeah, like thanks for coming on again. I know I haven't really been able to chat too much yet, uh, but yeah, it was a pleasure meeting you at that gym and being able to like shoot the shit in like the lunchroom and stuff like that, chat a bit about like bodybuilding, chat a bit about some of the clients I'm working with, balancing ideas off of you, and yeah, it was very helpful and like even for my last competition.
Speaker 2:I know I'm kind of going out of the way what we were talking about, but with being able to help me on stage, so that that was a huge thing for me. My last competition prep, if you guys don't know, I was dealing with a hip uh issue where I couldn't even actually go into my back double bicep pose, um, and then, thankfully, uh, james I reached out to james like last minute and he literally helped me out, like that next day, I'm pretty sure, in the morning, um to help with my minute, and he literally helped me out, like that next day, I'm pretty sure, in the morning, um to help with my hip and everything, and I was able to go on stage, had no hip issue at all and able to run through all those poses. So, yeah, big, big thanks to you. So I just wanted to input that there as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, thanks, brendan, and uh, no, I'm, I mean, I'm glad it helped. You know, that's kind of the key thing. And also, before I even say anything about that, yeah, it was an absolute pleasure working with you as well, because, from a registered massage therapy perspective, I believe some of the shortcomings of the academic program is based around not necessarily manual therapy, but more home care, right Physical, different types of exercise for certain things, and with your kinesiology background and your personal training, that's a huge help as far as my profession is concerned, because you're the expert in that field.
Speaker 3:And so when I come to you with a question and you know I'm pondering and pondering, and I come to you with a question, and and you know I'm pondering and pondering and I come to you and I ask a simple question in here oh well, yeah, you just do this. You know that's that's. That's a big help. It saves a lot of time and and ultimately, the the patient gets the home care that they need. And so, yeah, it was definitely a distinct pleasure to uh to work with you at at the aforementioned gym yeah, that's funny, but yeah, no, for sure and for sure um but yeah to get get back into it.
Speaker 2:um, since we were kind of going to bodybuilding a little bit now, um, I remember you saying something about getting specific, a specific massage technique to help enhance a physique. I don't know, I think I remember you saying that. I could be wrong, but was there any specific technique that you can utilize to help enhance somebody's appearance on, like a bodybuilding stage?
Speaker 3:Yes, and it kind of depends on what issues you're having, whether it be, in your case, where you were unable to get into a physical position based on you know something that's going on, whether it be pain or dysfunction, something to that effect, or even a training injury of some sort. So that's kind of one avenue of it. The other avenue is based on tone. So in your field you're going for more physique than you are power. And so when I would work with someone who is preparing for a show or should I say what would you call it? Not a competition, but an event.
Speaker 3:It's called the technique I use, called fascial cutting, and what that involves is if your fascial layers that kind of are between the muscle and the skin are quite tight, is the striation in the muscle or the detail in the muscle can be flattened, and so you're not going to see all of the striations in your quad muscles or maybe somewhere in your shoulder or, more importantly, the pectoralis muscle, so the chest muscle is there'll be an area, that where you don't see the physical lines coming across, and those little details can be the difference between first place and fifth place. And with fascial cutting it it's more of a technique to loosen the fascial area to allow the detail of the muscle to come through. So one is more performance based being able to get into positions comfortably and with that flexibility, and the other is more on the the overall appearance of the physique itself. So that's kind of the two different areas that we address.
Speaker 2:Okay, that makes sense. How soon before the show should you have that second one Like is that something that you'd want to do like a week before the show? Is that like a couple of days before the show? What would that generally look like?
Speaker 3:Yes, the first, being able to get into positions.
Speaker 3:I mean, that's something that you would want to take care of immediately in order to be able to train properly and to be able to go over routine things like that.
Speaker 3:The second, where the detail of the muscle may not be coming through because of some area, not of dysfunction but of tightness.
Speaker 3:That's something that would be within 24 hours 24 to 48 hours, if not right before your event, because that sort of thing, depending whether it's diet or maybe you're trying to cut weight or you're not drinking, you're not hydrating as well to try and get a little more detail in the muscle, you're not drinking, you're not hydrating as well to try and get a little more detail in the muscle. Not sure if that's still a thing, but that is generally the most common cause of that is, it can reoccur within 48 hours. So having somebody work on that at the day before is kind of the ideal scenario, if not at the event itself, but that's that's kind of the ideal scenario, if not at the event itself, but that's that's kind of pushing it. That would only be a case where you you've had treatment on that area before and you know it works, because you don't really want to do something different right before an event makes sense, makes sense yeah no, and I guess with.
Speaker 2:And then you have to think of the tan too, I guess. So if you have like the tan on and somebody's trying to do some massage, like it might smear the tan, so yeah.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Yeah, this would apply before that is applied. So if you do it, but like the morning of the event, it would have to be done, obviously right before that. Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say, if maybe it's like a side question, do you like to use tools or do you like to use like hand-on-hands, you know, skin-on-skin therapies?
Speaker 3:I do use some Graston tools, which is kind of like a not a sharp stone but a stone with an edge on it, in order to do some. Now Graston on someone who's going to be presenting it does it can mark the tissue. So that's not something that I would do, but essentially these are my tools right here and 90% of that of the work that I do well, 95% of the work that I do doesn't involve using any other tool, but we do have them at our disposal in case we do need them. There's some joint work where I have to use a belting system, you know, just different tools to kind of accentuate what I do with my hands.
Speaker 2:Makes sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but if I used a stone on you before you had an event, it's very likely that the tissue will, yeah, it'll, get some redness and it'll be noticeable in an event. So, certainly before an event. So, um, certainly before an event. I I don't use anything, Makes sense.
Speaker 2:Sweet. Um when when it comes to like athletes, so like bodybuilders, powerlifters, people playing sports and stuff like that. Um, do you find you do like a lot of preventative care too, like where people come in and you'll you'll do massages to make sure things are good, or do you find most of it is typically like after a year or after an injury or after something's gone wrong? Would you say you do a decent amount of like preventative care, or is it more so just like the aftermath of something?
Speaker 3:well, my typical day to answer your question, um, my typical day is about 90, just maintenance. So the people that I see most frequently are, I see, all sorts. I certainly see a lot of. There are a few professional athletes that I'm still treating. There are a lot of kind of high-end amateur athletes. That's kind of my niche right now the triathlete and I'm currently working with a ski development program.
Speaker 3:You know I've worked with certainly some Olympic level athletes as well, but but typically I'm treating amateur athletes, weekend warriors, and they'll come in with issues because you know we all have to work and there's a lot of stress in a lot of people's lives and kids and family and house. And then once you don't have the time to take care of the body and then you have some sort of sporting event or you do something. You go for a cross country ski and you go a little harder than maybe you should have and that's when I see kind of the recurring dysfunction. But generally my day consists of someone comes in with a problem, I treat that problem and then we maintain in order to keep that problem away. So most of my day to answer your question is just maintenance on a weekly, a monthly, a biweekly schedule, but generally I see my patients four to six weeks at the absolute maximum, because that's when dysfunction starts to happen what would you say?
Speaker 1:um, yeah, what would you say? Your most common injury or dysfunction? You know, most athletes or GPs come in to see you are oh boy, you're putting me on the spot here.
Speaker 3:You know there's there's two words when it comes to manual therapy that are said most often, and that is it depends. So you're going to have very specific type injuries for different sports. For example, we'll go out of the sports side of things. You're a person that sits in front of a desk or sits at a desk in front of a computer all day. I'm going to see commonalities in people that do this. I'm treating someone at a very high level in the curling sport right now. They're going to have very specific things because of how their body has to function.
Speaker 3:Professional hockey players same thing they're, you know, depending whether you're left-handed or right-handed is going to be dependent on, you know, how the body presents itself because it has to. Certain muscles and muscle groups have to be larger than others and have to perform different functions. So it's really dependent on your lifestyle. It's dependent on what you do outside of hobbies, all those sorts of things. So it's kind of a very broad question to answer. So specifically, let's say football players, most common injuries are fingers, hands, shoulders, concussion. Hockey players knees, low back, wrists. You know gymnasts, you're looking at ankles, wrists and shoulders. So it's just kind of dependent on the sport.
Speaker 2:Power lifters low back makes sense for bodybuilders, would you say bodybuilders are pretty similar to powerlifters and the injuries that they're getting as well in terms of like, maybe lower back and like shoulders and stuff, or have you noticed a similar trend with powerlifting?
Speaker 3:and bodybuilding? No, to answer your question, and the reason that I say that is and if there's anyone from the powerlifting, please accept my apology now but bodybuilders tend to take care of themselves a little bit better, and this is a very general statement, and that is because of the absolute necessity in nutrition, the absolute necessity in hydration, the absolute necessity in having an overall physique. Powerlifting is just that. It is it's power, and there are a lot of complications and a lot of injuries that can occur when you're getting into those. You know, extreme one, two rep maximums versus having a lower weight with higher repetitions. As far as because it's not about the power, it's about how your muscles present, it's about how your physique presents. So I tend to find that I have less to deal with with someone who is going for physique more than power. There's just so much more that can go wrong with those extreme weights.
Speaker 2:yeah that makes sense? Do you find, with the power lifters too, that there's some muscle groups are a little bit more underdeveloped compared to others, with like just doing like the bench press, like obviously they're doing accessory movements and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:But you notice certain muscle groups like overcompensated, a bit more like quads being bigger than the hamstrings or chest being a bit more dominant than like the upper back muscles and stuff like that or not so much with those kind of people so for, for someone who's more involved in um, say they're they're going for their bench maximum um, I find that there's so much emphasis put on the primary muscle group being, you know, chest and triceps and and anything that's in that push development, that the muscles that work opposite to those are the pull muscles and they're just as important as the pull, as the push muscles. Because if you train one area of the body over, train one area of the body and you don't take care of the body, that, like the technical term, is agonist. So your bicep muscle would be your agonist and your tricep muscle is the one that works opposite to that and that's the antagonist. So your agonist group for, say, someone who's going for a benchback or someone, would be all the pushing muscles and your antagonist are the pulling muscles. They work with each other and if one group of muscle is not working, then it kind of prevents the other group of muscles. So the agonist. If there's a problem with the antagonist, then there'll be a problem with the agonist, and and so you kind of have to look at the muscles as a group.
Speaker 3:I tend to find, you know, when you walk around the gym and you see, you know guys walking around and all you're looking at is the back of their hands and their.
Speaker 3:Their arms are out to the sides and that's that's being way too tight and strong in the front and through, like through the chest, through the lats, and not having the muscles that pull the shoulders back and rotate everything back. They're either not able to perform their function because of the tightness in the front or there's just an imbalance in strength, and any imbalance causes dysfunction, and so when I get into powerlifting, I see certain areas that are focused on without focusing on the antagonistic or antagonist group of muscles, and that's quite often when I'll see someone come in with dysfunction so they might have a sore low back because their hamstrings aren't developed enough and they don't hold the hips properly. That's probably the most common that I would see from a powerlifting perspective is that rotated shoulders forward, impingement, pain in the shoulders and in the neck, as well as some pretty significant low back pain and discomfort. Yeah, very, very well explained there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's that makes sense it's good.
Speaker 1:Never saw that with you, brandon yeah, so, just um, talking about, uh, just going back to you know, the question that I've asked you previously, you know the most common stuff, um, so, as I know I understand, some of your niche is working with amateur athletes and, in some levels, very good professional athletes, which is, I think it's a very, very interesting thing. Like, how would you view on, you know, maybe I wouldn't say what, I wouldn't say what's your view? Maybe I'll rephrase that Like, how big are you in aftercare, like home care, and you know, allowing your athletes or allowing your patients to actually do work outside of the therapy itself?
Speaker 3:Right. So, brandon, you can probably answer this question in a different way, but likely similar. Home care is 90% of treatment, so I'll explain that. So a patient comes into me with a sore low back. So the way we would go about that is you know, we do an assessment. The way we would go about that is you know, we do an assessment and we would do our best to find out what the primary cause of the problem is, as well as any secondary or tertiary problems. We treat that problem, which is 10%, we'll say or so, of the actual treatment that's required.
Speaker 3:The home care is the most important part. What the patient does at home determines how much work I have to do, and so my goal as a therapist at least my belief, is that someone comes in, I do my best to fix the problem, but then that has to be maintained. So either it's a lifestyle change, it's a change in their training, it's a change in anything could be sleep patterns, it could be the way that they're lifting certain things. That 90% determines their overall health and their overall ability to train and their overall ability to perform at the highest level, depending on who it is that's coming in to see me. So yeah, to answer your question directly, I would say it is the majority is you can fix the problem, but then that problem has to be maintained that. That's where home care comes in. So providing proper home care, whether it be stretches or exercises, is of the utmost importance in my belief and in my field that makes it?
Speaker 2:do you feel like that's the most challenging thing to get people to do? Is that home care? Like they'll come in, they'll get the adjustment of the massage or whatever, but then, like when it comes to doing the stuff themselves, you find that's where it's the hardest to get them to do it.
Speaker 2:Like unless they have like a personal trainer there with them. Like tell them okay, like let's, let's go through these exercises, those mobility exercises, the stretching Do you find people are usually pretty good at doing it on their own, or do you find that, like you see, notice that people start to like half-ass it on their own, or like what does that? Generally look like for you.
Speaker 3:Well, brandon I mean everyone that I treat does everything that I say for them to do every single day? Of course not. It is. It is the hardest thing. It is the hardest thing. We're all very busy people.
Speaker 3:Quite often the most excuse that I hear is or not an excuse. The explanation that I'm given is I don't have time and so, yes, it's the hardest thing to get people to do it on a consistent basis. If somebody comes in and they're oh my goodness, I'm so sorry, I didn't do my homework, and it's don't apologize to me, this is it's for you, it's not for me, and the more you do at home, the better you're going to feel, the better you're going to feel, and then that tends to be we get somebody on board and they never go back. So, yeah, it's incredibly difficult and I have some people that just declare I don't do homework and you know.
Speaker 3:So you do the best with what you have and you treat them to the level that you can, knowing that they're going to keep coming back with the same problem. But if they don't do it at home, they're going to keep coming back with the same problem. But if they don't do it at home, they're going to keep coming back with the same problem. So if you can educate them well enough so that they understand, listen, I can change this pattern. But in order to fix you, you have to fix yourself and you have to do the right things at home. Whether it be whatever change it is that's required in order for that to happen. So yeah, I don't really get on people for not doing it, I just simply say the more you do the better you're going to feel and hopefully that sticks.
Speaker 1:In other words, you'll say you'll agree that home care and training and doing stuff outside therapy is rather important in your words as well. So which brings me to our next topic, which is something we've spoke a little bit about off camera. If listeners have not heard of a person called Adam Meekin, you guys can search him up on social media. He's quite big on the social media. Have you heard of this person before? James Adam Meekin?
Speaker 3:I have. Yes, I'm familiar with Adam.
Speaker 1:Okay, from my understanding he's also. Well, he's not an RMT, he's a physiotherapist. Is that correct? That's correct, yes, yeah. So on one of his theories I'm not sure if it's theories or his thesis statement, I'm not sure, but if so, one of his stuff is like theories was manual therapy describes as not very useful if everything is according to quote unquote science based. So would you agree with some of these theories or his concepts and your comments on those?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean that's definitely a controversial statement and I think if you look up Adam and you read through a lot of the comments, I mean there are some pretty harsh comments that are made in regards to his views and I just think that the way we need to look at this isn't necessarily what he said, it's more why he's saying what he's saying.
Speaker 3:And I say controversial because there are certainly a lot of things that I don't agree with. I believe you know there's a lot of not necessarily clickbait, but I believe he entices a reaction in order to have a discussion based on these things and you know, I think we're all guilty of that at some point and he's more or less introducing an opportunity to discuss what he's talking about as far as manual therapy, and I mean he goes pretty far out there on a few things that I certainly agree with some of the things that he's saying, and he does generally give a little bit of positive feedback as far as manual therapy. I think if you read through his articles, he will go one direction and then he'll kind of call it back in in order to have that discussion based around it. So I'm sure that's quite hard to understand, but his, unless you've read the articles. But basically what he's saying is that it's not necessarily that there's no benefit to manual therapy. It's based on scientific evidence that there's not a lot to go on as far as physical evidence, and when he discusses that he's right. Especially in my field of registered massage therapy, there is a ton of research that needs to be done in order to prove or in some cases disprove, whether or not something actually physically works. So I'm very scientifically based and so you can't argue some of the things that he says. You just can't because the evidence isn't there to show support from a scientific base that these things do actually work. Same as if we're talking about energy work or you know something like Reiki. You know these. They're not scientifically proven, so they can be disproved by just saying I don't believe it. So I think, to generalize it, I appreciate the fact that he's brought up the subject so that we can start talking about this, because more evidence, we need more evidence, we need more studies. We need more in-depth, scientifically based studies, not opinions, facts, and I I think once that's that should disprove a fair bit of what he's saying about manual therapy and that I see it for myself. I can't scientifically prove it, but someone comes in with a shoulder that they can't move.
Speaker 3:I do manual therapy. We retest, there's a change to the positive. So it's hard to disprove based on that. But that's not a scientific-, scientific based, it's not science based evidence. It's. It's, um, it's my hearsay, based on my observation. So, yeah, does manual therapy work? In my opinion, absolutely. I wouldn't be in this business. You know if, if I wasn't and if it didn't work, well then I'd just be here for a paycheck and, um, that's. That's not why I do what I do. I have a distinct passion for it and and it can be a little upsetting to hear somebody say that my profession is I mean, if I had to summarize as a joke, you know I'm doing it for the money and I'm not doing it for people, so that you know I'm doing it for the money and I'm not doing it for people. So that's the part that I found a little hard to the degree that I believe has been made here. I don't believe is the correct way to go about it, but it certainly introduces the opportunity for discussion.
Speaker 1:Very, very well said. I think you've given a lot of insight on how many individuals can actually just see past what's on the surface and really digging, asking the question, the most important question, or the why question and I think that's also why we brought up the topic on you know your views and how things are, you know, being presented now and marketed now. As for pre-therapy and mild detox, I think that also is one of the discussions and outcomes on these topics coming out and promoting this. Training and myoneotherapy can actually work together and this is something that you also mentioned has been around for a long time. It's not news. So I think I really agree and I really appreciate on how you put this together. Uh, very, very well said. You know, I could not have said it any better. Uh, I think it made it very clear. You know, I actually opened some of my eyes on some, some point of views as well, me as well.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say with like adam's uh posts and stuff like I find with social media nowadays, like everybody's trying to make stuff controversial because that's what blows up, and like if they can get more negative comments in their feeds, um, that's just gonna blow that post up even more and they're gonna get more popular on social media from like hate messages and all. So like I feel like with some of uh adam's theory, like adam's post, like he's intentionally doing that to try to like make people mad. So like I can see like there's some good in like showcasing some of that. But I think if he went about it in a more of a research based like approach, like he would have more context with like I guess he does go into a bit more context later on, but yeah, it's definitely a lot of like rage bait.
Speaker 2:When you look at that, I'm sure for being in the registered massage therapy field, like just looking at some of that, it's probably triggers like anger and stuff like that, which I think that's what he's trying to provoke. So yeah, it's yeah, I don't know, it seems like social media with even like with our field, there's a lot of people that are so one-sided and it's just. Yeah, it's just to create that controversial which oftentimes creates like fame and people with social media. So it's just to create that controversial which oftentimes creates like fame and people with social media.
Speaker 3:So it's, yeah, it's I would say it's probably not the best way or best thing to be known for, but uh, yeah, thanks for explaining all that, yeah yeah, absolutely, and yeah and uh, if, if we have time, I just want to add one more quick little thing in regards to regard to adam's comments is that there's another part that just off the top of my head here that I agree with him, and I want to make it crystal clear that there are a lot of therapists out there that really don't care about the client, and I hate to say that, but he's correct. And so for every good therapist that you have out there, you probably have three, four, maybe even higher therapists that just go through the routine. They do the same thing for every single person and they're less interested in how to help the person and more interested in just kind of getting the job done. And so I encourage anyone that is looking to have or is currently getting manual therapy is you have to choose the right person in order to get the right results. So I agree with him in that case is I get incredibly frustrated when I hear people that come to me and say you know, I haven't really, I've gone to this person and this person and this person, I don't, I haven't received any results, and I find out that the testing hasn't been done, but orthopedic testing and all the things that we're trained to do as part of our profession, that we pay a lot of money for and spend a lot of time doing, is it's not being used to its effectiveness and therefore the the, the patient isn't getting what they're getting.
Speaker 3:And I I think he really hones in on this and and that's the part that I really appreciate with him is I I love the fact that he's stirring the pot, because it's really frustrating as a therapist that if you deeply care about somebody's issue and and you want to treat them and you want them to function better and you go through everything that you're doing and then you have someone else in your field that just doesn't care and is a terrible therapist, is that that's, that's your profession? And if you take great pride in it, then it's highly offensive to hear these types of things. And so that's the part that I appreciate about what he's saying. And and I really do think that that needs to be something brought to the forefront is, if you're not getting the manual therapy and you're not getting the results that you need, go somewhere else.
Speaker 3:Not my profession isn't necessarily going to help everyone. That's why we have all these different therapies out there chiropractic physio. They either work together or one works better than the other, and that's something that is harder to figure out. But it's more trial and error until you find what you're looking for, or finding the right therapist that's interested in actually curing or not curing the problem, but treating the problem yeah, no, very, very well said there, and I think that goes for like anything, even with, like, personal trainer.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, like you, if the person doesn't actually care for you and they're just giving you something to go through and they're not actually making it specific to you, um, and you're not seeing the proper results, then, yeah, you probably shouldn't be sticking with that person. So, yeah, no, very, very well said there, absolutely Okay, okay, sweet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so thank you for your time, james. I really, really appreciate your time and all the input that you put in. You made some very, very well comments and gave a lot of insights to how we should view our new perspectives on other people's comments or how the society is kind of pushing the trend is. I think that's a very, very given me a lot of very good insights, at least so for our listeners who wants more information on manual therapy and RMTs and out in the West Coast here, can you tell our audience where we can find you?
Speaker 3:Yes, my company name is Ath Elite Health. It's a bit of a play on the word. It's A-T-H-E-L-I-T-E, so that's atheletehealthcom. The college, our governing college as well, is CMTBC, college of Massage Therapy of British Columbia. That group has now been amalgamated, but you can certainly go into CMTBC and they'll be able to give you an insight as to therapists that are registered in the profession in your area, and I just encourage to go on the internet and do some searching and read some of the reviews and read some of the comments of you know what is it that they're doing to help people? And that will likely steer you in the right direction of who you feel will be the best person, because someone who just does a regular routine, they're not going to get the same reviews as somebody who goes out of their way to do something, and that'll be in the comments of they did this and they did that and it surprised me.
Speaker 3:Um, those are the type of comments that that I would look for personally, um, and I do look for when, because I need treatment myself. So, um, I'm very picky and choosy about who I go see and, um, I encourage you to do the same thing. Do your research, spend a little bit of time trying to figure out who it is and kind of what therapy perhaps you should be steered in, because your physician is not necessarily trained in different manual therapies. They're trained very specifically in their profession and, yeah, there is perhaps a bit of misinformation out there, and so I would encourage to ask around, ask your friends who do they go see, and quite often that'll steer you in the right direction, that's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's also word of mouth. I think that's also a really strong suit as well. But again, we will link all James' information down in the comments below so you can go out and see him. I think he's out in Kelowna, is that correct, brandon? Yeah, yeah, so if you guys are out in Kelowna, say hi to him. We'll list all his information down below and until then, we'll see you next time. Bye, guys.