Lifting Nerds
Adrian Ma and Brandon Emslie share discussions and interviews with the fitness community's best science-based researchers and coaches.
Lifting Nerds
S3E3 - Secrets to Conquering Competition Challenges
Bodybuilding competition preparation requires commitment, knowledge, and a proper understanding of one’s body. Aspiring competitors often underestimate the timeline and the body fat levels necessary to achieve stage readiness, leading to common misconceptions and challenges along the way.
• Understanding the difference between stage-ready and beach-ready leanness
• The importance of a realistic timeline for preparation
• Unique challenges for female competitors compared to male competitors
• Managing mental health and finding community support during prep
• Practical tips for maintaining balance and focusing on overall well-being
Compete only when you're fully prepared; mental health matters, and it's essential to have a clear perspective on the demands of this sport.
IG: @liftingnerds
Youtube: liftingnerds
Host
@_adrianma
@brandonemslie
coming back. Uh, you know, welcome back to the show. It is our third uh episode for this season. We were lucky enough to have leo king come to join us last time and, um, you know, give a lot, give us a lot of insights. Uh, on, you know what's coming for the WMBF and that's always a very exciting part to our bodybuilding community. And here today we are here to talk a little bit about, you know, bodybuilding shows, since we're on that topic for first timers. Usually that's, it's not a lot of like people will run into, but then it's, you know, quite a good amount. You know people question and maybe they're kind of a defense on, you know, wanting to compete, just even though just following you know, our own little fitness journey. So before we go into that, you know, I think we'll just take, we'll just take some time and you know we are like 12 weeks now oh my God, 12 weeks out from your show, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, man, we're, I think, 12 weeks and, uh, three days out so yeah, it's wednesday yeah, yeah, yeah, man, things, things are going pretty solid, like, um, I have been noticing my weight hasn't been trending down quite as much like I'm literally only like 0.1 pound down from last week's average, but it's not really anything I'm super stressed about because I got so much time to play around with in terms of like I'm, yeah, 12, just over 12 weeks out. I have maybe like seven, eight pounds to come off, so I'm not in too much of a rush and I do notice my physique is getting tighter and tighter, especially like in person. I know photos can sometimes mess with you. I was using the video and just doing the screenshot and I probably should have just did like the countdown because you can see a bit more definition that way.
Speaker 2:But no, I think things have been going pretty good, man. Like no crazy prep symptoms so far, just a little bit more hunger towards the end of the day. Um, I I noticed generally with preps generally in a deficit, I do find like my anxiety tends to just kind of creep up one notch more than usual. I think it's just your body's just slightly stressed out because you're you're losing body fat and I'm probably starting to get into those zones that are probably not quite unhealthy yet. But give it another like two, three weeks, I'll probably start going into more of those unhealthy body fat levels.
Speaker 2:But yeah, man, it's. It's been pretty solid so far. Strength's still in a really good position. How about you, man? How's, how's your prep going for you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they probably don't know this yet, but yeah, so I think it's a good opportunity for me to, you know, tell everybody here, and maybe some of like a handful of people know that I, you know, decided to take part in a season this year. So we've been talking about it with, you know, brian Miner so people who have been following our podcast, he's a very he's came into our show, you know, a good couple times and you know very well known face here on our channel. So I've worked out yeah, still working with him. He suggests a couple good shows this season. You know, as we have plans well, I have plans for, you know, for the next coming couple years. So this would be a good season for me to uh, compete and uh, since 2022 so it's been the third year now uh, to see, you know, look over on some of the, you know, gains that we've made over the past of this off season. So very, very exciting and I believe we've been pre cutting. So, as you know, you and I will actually do, we did a, we did a cut, you know, just a fat loss I would, you know, quote it as fat loss phase from last year's July and we took a very slow approach to November. We've starting out by like 72 kilos 72 kilos and we got down to about 65, 66 kilos by November. So that went well and we kind of just stayed and went back to a slight surplus for the Christmas season into this new year. We're just going back to a slight surplus for the Christmas season into this new year. We're just going back to a very strict prep so we can officially say that prep is actually started.
Speaker 1:I've been fluctuating for the past two weeks, staying at 65 to 66 kilos, not really leaning down, just like you. I don't see a big shift in body weight for these two weeks. Probably it's just due to you know, one more, you know meal that was snucked in. That was, um, the, the chinese new year meals. Uh, there was, I think, one or two gatherings and then wife birthday's coming, but then, yeah, so, uh, considering that, I think, uh, we estimated me to be a little bit below than 62 kilos from stage. Um, I think that's going to be. So I'm pretty much like what? Three to four kilos away right now. So maybe averaging about a kilo a month, then I think we're going to be pretty good that. That's the dream, though we're not sure how it's going to go. But you know, I hope this season, you know I would, you know, look a little bit more fuller. So we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 1:Yeah makes sense man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you pretty much. As you mentioned, you're about three to four kilograms, so I think that's probably around almost 10 pounds or so. So you're probably around the same composition as me in terms of how much weight you have to lose to get to the stage. So that's cool man.
Speaker 1:Do you notice?
Speaker 2:any symptoms so far with hunger or anything like that Are you, you know seeing any extra fatigue. Are you pretty well feeling normal right now?
Speaker 1:Well, that's a good question. So I did realize something. The thing I realized is I don't feel a lot of hunger. It's the, it's the soreness, it's actually the muscle soreness. It actually holds a little bit longer in the body. It's. It's weird, it's very, very weird, like I don't know how to explain it, but it's. It seems to be like the first time you lift again after like a long injury and it's so sore that it's so hard to move. Um, it just prolongs for a little bit longer than than usual usually. Well, maybe because I was a little bit more, you know, fatter back in the off season. So, you know, recovery was definitely something, um, that was much more manageable. And now, you know, I didn't want to say anything to to brian yet because I thought it was just me. It was just me, you know, just getting into this new body and it's just these just adapting to this new new body weight, so, uh, so I didn't say anything.
Speaker 2:It's just kind of like, okay, we're going to work out, okay, I'll just, I'll just hustle through this yeah, I wonder if that's due to just the recovery not being quite as on point, just not getting as much food coming in. So recovery is just taking. Is it just a little bit slower from session to session? Um, is your volume like the same as it was last year? Are you guys doing a little bit more volume this time?
Speaker 1:around. Oh, definitely more volume. So he's kind of like so the program right now is not very different from what we did offseason, it's just variations of exercises, something a little bit more safe. We're still doing some, you know, quite a bit of dumbbell work, very heavy dumbbell work, to like five to eight rep ranges. So we're still doing that and you know, as you said, you know, strength wise it hasn't dropped. For you Strength is starting.
Speaker 1:It's actually this is this is a good thing that I wanted to just maybe like get your thoughts into this. So let's say we're in the five to eight rep range. Compared to like an off season, we have a lot more fluids and muscle mass in our joints compared to when we're a little bit more shredded or a little bit more lean. Uh, like, doing a very heavy dumbbell flat press um feels different. So the the I would find like when I'm doing my dumbbell presses, my flat dumbbell presses, I could probably probably do like I don't know, like 75, 80 pounds per hand, just like the pressing. However, now the difference between leaner and when I was doing off season is the setup, like that kick to come up and that lean back is so much more difficult now it's like I don't feel like I'm safe anymore. So you know what, what would be your you know advice on?
Speaker 2:you know something like this, you know I would say because, like, if you weigh less, you're probably gonna have not as much weight pulling back when you're trying to get up. So you like just from, like the biomechanics of you going onto your back, there's not gonna be as much like momentum there, from like your, just your general body weight. Um, I do notice with like benching especially, um, as you're getting leaner, like obviously, like the fat tissue on your chest, like you're gonna be a little, it's not, it's gonna be a larger range of motion compared to like deep in the off season. It's probably not gonna be too crazy for you, especially from just your last cut in the maintenance period until now. But I do notice like the range of motion in the chest movements tend to get a little bit larger too.
Speaker 2:Um, and I'm the same way man, like my, my benching movements are usually the first ones to go or the first ones to start kind of feeling a little bit off. Um, I didn't notice actually, on the last bit of my last training block my bench was started like my dumbbell benching was starting to feel a little achy too. I was in more of those rep ranges in my shoulder. I was having a bit of a harder time keeping that tension through my chest and it was starting to go a little bit into, like that shoulder. I don't know if the scapula wasn't moving quite as well, um, but yeah, no, I would say, yeah, it's probably just that total body weight and maybe, like that distance is just slightly longer, um, and if you're, if you're going to those, like you're not going to be as fueled with, like, carbohydrates and glycogen, so like your muscles aren't going to be quite as full too and, like you mentioned, there's not as much fat tissue around the joints and everything.
Speaker 1:So it's it's probably a combination of all that I'd say yeah so maybe I'll ask you this would you, would you compensate, uh decreasing in load for this bench press to actually manage the setup, or would you hold on to the same load that you know you managed? You can actually press. So would you like keep the load or decrease the load, just for the setup?
Speaker 2:I would say like if you have like somebody there to spot you, you can maybe use the same load. Just get somebody to help get it up and into position so you're not worried about that and like starting so much energy through that. But for that I would probably decrease the load, just so you can get into a good position. You can feel that target muscle group, your chest because that's another big thing.
Speaker 2:Especially in my old prep spend I used to really chase, like trying to keep that strength no matter what. And then you look at the form from week to week and it's starting to get like balance here. It's getting faster and faster and then I noticed like my chest looked like it was shrinking because, like my delt or my tricep, or just the momentum was getting so involved that the actual stimulus for that muscle group, the chest, wasn't to the same degree. So I would definitely, yeah, bump down the load just a bit just to ensure that you're still getting an adequate stiffness to the chest.
Speaker 1:That's a good point. Yeah, that's, that's exactly also what you know. I brought this to to Brian's attention and he, he actually said the same thing. You know, I'm glad I'm not I'm not just thinking with my ego at this point, um, but yeah, I think it's also a good segue for for us to. You know, talk a little bit about me and you.
Speaker 1:We're both, you know, in, in in a position where our body is actually changing and we're prepping we, we've done this a good couple times. We, even though we do have our own understanding and, uh, we have our own questions as well, you know, on on how to approach us. It's still a learning curve for both of us, even though, for new bodies, if you've, guys, been following Brandon's story, he he's, he shares his fitness journey through his stories and you can definitely see he's made some, you know, very good gains over the past season. You can actually see his upper body looks a lot fuller, his posing has improved, his waist looks tiny, his abs has always looked amazing. So, uh, right now, you know, adapting this new body. You know, what would you think you know is different from your training?
Speaker 2:uh, from now, you know, versus when you were in the same body weight a couple years ago um, I would say a couple years ago like so, when I the last prep I did with Jeff, I was probably like I was training five days per week with probably a similar amount of volume to now, maybe slightly less, especially as prep went on. So definitely a bit more volume for the upper body, I would say. But I'm only training four times per week, so I actually have three full rest days, um, throughout the week and I've been noticing just from like a joint perspective, I'm not getting as many aches and pains. Um, I know, last time when I was with Jeff, when we were cutting down, um, we ended up pulling that fifth day just because I was just getting to the point where, like aches were coming up. I just felt like I didn't have that with my training on that last day. So I was like, okay, like we were chatting, I was like, yeah, it's probably just the fatigue from like being in that deficit.
Speaker 2:So it was pulled that way. Once we pulled that way I was feeling great. But one of the main things I would say that's really helped with my upper body, especially my delts, like I've actually had shoulder pressing in like overhead shoulder pressing in for the past I guess two years now pretty much since since I started the off season. So I think that's probably helped with overall delt development. The lateral raises and stuff have definitely been another thing. Incorporating a bit more volume with the lateral raises and stuff have definitely been another thing. Incorporating a bit more volume with the lateral raises. A bit more kind of rear delt specific work I think has allowed my delts to pop a bit more. For the actual fullness itself of my physique I'm not sure there's probably a bit more tissue added on. So I'm hoping, fingers crossed, that I have another pound, maybe pound, and a bit more tissue added on. So I'm hoping, fingers crossed, that I have another like pound, maybe pound and a half of tissue.
Speaker 1:It might might not be that much.
Speaker 2:It might be like 50 grams or 60 grams of new tissue. But since being advanced now training for I guess, I've been working out for 14 years now, bodybuilding for 10 years. So it's just that rate of progress slows down so much that even like 60 grams of tissue, well, when you think of, when you weigh that on a scale like 60 grams is still a lot like if you think of a steak or you think of like meat with meat packages.
Speaker 2:That was yeah, like I would say. Those are probably the main things that I think have allowed me to see a bit more change with my physique is get having more shoulder pressing, a little bit more volume in general for the upper body. I'm still doing a decent amount for the lower body, but probably not quite as much as I was before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because, like you're going to be, you know, focusing on men's physique in this season. So I do remember you mentioned on from the first episode, we, we, we talked a little bit about although you, we still need a certain amount of condition, but not, as you know, shredded or conditioned as you were to do bodybuilding or maybe even classic physique. Now we have that in the wmbf. It's going to be exciting for this first season anyways, um. So, yeah, um, still very lean and not, uh, not absolutely shredded, um. But it actually brings me to a good question, for you know, the reality of stage conditioning versus what people think. You know, quote unquote lean, maybe. You know, lean everybody has, you know, quite a different variation. But I think we're on the topic of being, you know, stage lean and being prepared for a bodybuilding show. I think we can talk a little bit about first timers, as we said in the beginning. I know you've had a little bit more first time. What would you say? You know how they would underestimate how lean they need to be yeah.
Speaker 2:So I would say like when people first come to me about competing for a bodybuilding show, essentially the first thing is they generally come to me too late and they're thinking like there's this show that's like two months from now. They're like oh, if the show's in May, they come in like February and they're like oh but they come like two months before the actual show and they're like, okay, I want to do this show.
Speaker 2:And they look at their body fat like they just finished a bulk and they're like peak bulk mode. So they like 40 pounds above stage weight. And then I have to like wind them back, like hey, man, I'm sorry, but this is probably not going to be a realistic amount of time. So they they perceive like they're usually off by like 10 to like 15, possibly 20 pounds where they believe that their stage weight should be like. A lot of times when they come to me they're like, oh yeah, I'm thinking my weight is probably going to be like this on stage and realistically I'm usually having like hey, sorry, man, but like for bodybuilding, like that, probably a pretty good like beach level of conditioning. But when it comes to the stage, like when it comes to actually getting to six to like eight percent body fat for men's physique, it's usually you have to drop like an extra 10, 15 pounds so
Speaker 2:when a lot of first-timers go to the stage if they don't have a coach, that's usually the biggest thing is they're. They're just like 15, 20 pounds above stage weight. And then, because they're taking all these photos in like the half nanny lighting where there's down lighting where you can see all these details popping out, but when they go into just like average lighting there's nothing, pretty much they just look pretty smooth. So, yeah, you would want to look like diced in just natural sunlight without the down lighting. Um, that that will definitely help, um, but uh, so that's pretty much my experience with like first timers. They they're usually, I would say, hopping on stage around like 12, 10 body fat, when realistically, yeah, they, they still have another like three, four, five, six percent body fat to take them off.
Speaker 1:I think you make a really good point. Just going back to that, uh, you said about doing photo shoots and stuff like that. You, you did mention, you know, being in men's physique for, uh, a good body fat percentage would be like what, six percent body fat ish, you know, give or take, and then what would be? What would you think like the difference between like maybe a beach lean or maybe like a photo shoot lean? You know what would be. What would you think like the difference between like maybe a beach lean or maybe like a photo shoot lean? You know what would be the body fat percentage or the difference between those?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so beach lean, that's going to be generally like a 10 to 12% body fat. It's typically a weight most people can, or body fat level. Most people can get to without any real severe like symptoms of like prep, where hunger is very elevated, like you'll get some of that um and same with energy level, but it's it's something that's generally quite maintainable over the course of like a summer for each season, um, but yeah, so that's going to be around your like 10 12 body fat.
Speaker 2:Some people, depending on their genetics, they can be at 15 body fat. And still people, depending on their genetics, they can be at 15% body fat and still see the outline of their abs and still look quite lean. But yeah, then, for men's physique, that's going to be like that. Six to eight is generally a pretty good range and that's where you're seeing those striations. You're seeing the veins popping out everywhere in your midsection. Veins popping out everywhere in your midsection, um, the lines in your delts, the like striations in your triceps, um. So, and then when it comes to like bodybuilding, like that's where the legs need to come in.
Speaker 2:So, a lot of times with men's physique, most people their upper body's just diced but, like their legs still have a decent amount of body fat to come off of. So for me personally, like my, my legs are always the last place to go. My quads are not too bad, but my glutes and hamstrings take quite a while, um, so that's where I think last year I lost fullness in my upper body, trying to chase more conditioning in my legs, um, and I could have maybe potentially filled up a little bit more with carbs going from the bodybuilding, the men's physique, which may filled up a little bit more with carbs going from the bodybuilding and the men's physique, which may have helped a little bit with that. But I do believe, yeah, it's just a bit of fullness loss there and so, yeah, you can generally bring a bit more of a fuller look up top if you're just focusing on men's physique rather than bodybuilding as well.
Speaker 1:You did mention about. You know, your glutes and hamstrings are like the last to like, dice out, like would you say that's only you or would you say that's you know?
Speaker 2:a lot of competitors actually have the same issue um, I would say I would say the majority of competitors have the same issue they're.
Speaker 2:I had worked with some athletes that just have giant legs, that they're like their glute fibers and their hamstrings are just so dominant that even in their off season you can see faint, like striations there. So those kind of people, it's they're a little bit different just because they have so much muscle mass there. Um, for me, like my leg development it's it's okay, but it's not to the same extreme then. So the more muscle mass you have, usually the leaner you actually look compared to like what you actually are. So if somebody has way more muscle mass in their legs compared to somebody has less muscle mass, less muscle mass in their legs but they're the exact same body fat percentage, the person with more muscle mass is going to look more shredded because that body fat is dispersed over a larger surface area, which will allow, like more detail to pop, whereas the other person could have the exact same body fat level but there's not as much muscle to press out against it and as much surface area.
Speaker 2:So those are some of the differences too yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's actually kind of like a little challenging to actually just assess. If somebody just came to you asking what, what body weight should I be thinking about, to just step on stage, and I guess the real answer is just, it depends. And then an athlete who's the first timer, and well, how would you assess, you know, their potential body weight or potential body fat percentage? Body fat percentage? Honestly, it's, I would say, a little bit harder to identify because we can't really, we can't just rely on an in-body scale or any sort of like home scale just to to make it an accurate reading. But yeah, you know how will we assess these kind of situations here?
Speaker 2:I think we talked about this a little bit on our first podcast. But yeah, like you can like, if you have access to a deXA scan, a lot of like colleges and universities, even there might be some places that you can just get one done for a certain price which will be decently active. I think they're pretty well the golden standard for body fat percentage. But a lot of times it's just the eye Like. So like I've seen like super, super shredded people. I've seen like super, super shredded people. I've seen like their weight, I've seen how much muscle they have, and I find you just get an eye for it over time. You kind of just realize okay, it's, it's probably going to be about this range. But looking back at photos when they're at their leanest two is another way of seeing like okay, like they're at this spot, this weight, they're looking this way, so they probably have another like 10, 15 pounds to come off of.
Speaker 2:So it is a little bit of a guessing game but like, once you have that eye and once you see how the physique is looking over time, then you can get a better understanding. Some people it may be a little bit more than we're thinking with.
Speaker 1:Some people it may be a little bit less yeah, I think that also brings to another attention to the importance of checking in um with with them constantly, and I think conditions, uh, will vary also due tanning, lighting and carving, carving up and carving down, you know, if time, you know, presents itself, um, but like reminding back, you said like there's some, there's some individuals where you, you you've mentioned, they've came in, they came to you, you know, eight weeks before the show day and they're at their peak of their bulk, yeah, and apparently, you know that's kind of like starting prep a little bit too late and there's just not enough time for them to um, you know, diet down. But you know what would be your I we've, I know we talked about this back in a couple seasons, but what is a timeline that you're comfortable with? Let's say, somebody is in their peak bulk, what would be like a comfortable timeline for you to work with somebody in leading into a prep?
Speaker 2:yeah, so if somebody's like peak bulk.
Speaker 2:So if say, for example, they're like 40, 50 pounds, they're like a dirty bulk and they're like 50 pounds above stage weight, that might actually look like a nine to like a whole year month process to have a pre-prep cut, maintain for a little bit and then go into a prep so that may look like a full year. Like a full year If they did a bulk. They're a relatively lean individual. Yeah, you might be able to do that in like 24 to 30 weeks, get them to the stage. But that's going to be the odd one off case where somebody is just already quite naturally like relatively lean, like they did this bulk. They're like 15% body fat so they don't have like a ton to come off so that you might be able to make that work.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, most of the time, like if somebody comes to me and like they're relatively lean, they didn't do any crazy like bulking but they have a good amount of muscle mass. Like I've helped people start their prep like 16 weeks out. But this is when they're probably already around 10 12 body fat so they don't have a ton to that needs to come off. But another big thing too is if somebody's coming to me and they're already been dieting for so long, the calories are already really low. I'm noticing signs of like diet fatigue and a down regulation. Um like, uh, their overall needs are not moving around as much and they're just having it already be on severely low calories. You can down regulation, like their overall needs. You're not moving around as much and they're just having to already be on severely low calories. That's often a sign okay, like you shouldn't be starting a prep now.
Speaker 2:We should be ramping things up, making sure you're in a place where, like diet fatigue, symptoms, like energy level, libido, mood, all that we want that to be good before we actually start a prep. If you're feeling all these severe symptoms before you even start, if you're already having obsessive behaviors around food, that is not a good time to start prep. So there's definitely a balancing aspect of like with the dieting before.
Speaker 1:I think I want to expand a little bit on that, because I think that's that's actually something that I hear a lot from female competitors, no matter what category they're in. So hitting that plateau, you know, dieting a little bit too early, going on this very hard diet very, very early into their prep, what would be a I wouldn't say an app practical advice, but what would you like? How would you handle the situation if an athlete has already registered for for a particular show, um, you know, before coming to you, and then they come to you as, okay, like I'm hitting these calories right now and they're like 12 weeks out and they're they're kind of like suffering that kind of symptoms that you just mentioned. You're like, how would you handle this situation? How?
Speaker 2:how? What body fat percentage are they at like? Are they? Do? They still have quite a ways to go.
Speaker 1:Let's say they're like 25 pounds from an ideal stage weight, first time okay yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:That's definitely a tricky one. Like I would pretty much just like be realistic with them and be like, if you're 12 weeks out, if you're at this, like is their weight like stalled out too, like they're not seeing?
Speaker 1:yeah, they're not seeing any progress this is not a case study. I'm just make an example just pulling like an example out of my ass.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah that was, um, yeah, I would say like, I would try to see if, like, if they already registered for the show, like, and the calories are already severely low, um, I might even like bring them up for a bit or like, have them at like a diet break for a couple weeks just to help replenish everything, um, get things back to feeling a bit more normal.
Speaker 2:Um, and like I would really encourage them to push for a later date show. Like I would say, um, yeah, if you're doing a show, you're 12 weeks out. Like, yeah, you can go a bit more aggressive with things. But even going a bit more aggressive with things, you're probably just not going to have enough time to get really lean like you might be able to get. You might be able to pull off, say like 12 pounds off, um, within that time frame. Like, I find bikini girls oftentimes need a little bit extra cardio just because their basal metabolic rate's often a little bit lower. So to keep protein and enough calories in to perform at their best, oftentimes, cardio generally needs to kind of go up a bit higher than a lot of guys do.
Speaker 2:But yeah it's. It's definitely a tricky, tricky one, like they're realistically probably not going to be able to get to that stage lane lean level of leanness within that time frame.
Speaker 2:They probably need like an extra 12 weeks to get there and, like, if they're already been dieting for so long, like realistically it'd be best for them to bring the calories up for like a couple months, bring protein nice and high, see if they can just get some recomp for like a good chunk of a couple months and then go for a later show in the future. Um, but it's just like letting them know like, okay, like this is probably we're not, probably not gonna be able to get as lean as these girls. If you want to do this show for fun, if you want to do this, um, uh, if you want to, because, like you always try to think of people's like mental and physical health too, because you can crash that somebody and get them into like 800 700 calories, which some girls like, if they're very small, if they're only like 105 pounds, like they might need to go into those extreme levels, um, just based off of like how much they're weighing.
Speaker 2:Like if somebody's like 200 pounds, they shouldn't be generally going that low um but uh yeah, they generally need to be going a bit lower.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, but the big the main answer.
Speaker 2:I would probably just try to move it so that we can do it in a healthier fashion. Like you could drop the calories to a pretty severe amount and add a lot of cardio, but then there's the risk of potentially losing a bit more muscle and having more. I guess you would say like the reds, uh symptoms. Symptoms for things just really sort of down regulate, like your needs, your hormonal levels and stuff like that. So it's definitely a tricky one to deal with.
Speaker 1:I think that's a really good point that you pointed out. I think you made a really good point comparing, like, men and women, on how they should prep differently. You know, biologically Some people may or may not know it's a little bit more quicker and a little bit more easier for men to actually dial down and lose body fat percentages. Number one, probably due to the muscle mass that you're genetically, you know, have. However, you know, just prepping, I think females it's a little bit of a different approach. What would you say your biggest challenge is between prepping females versus males for yourself.
Speaker 2:Generally like there are some females that can drop weight real quick, like my girlfriend, for example. Like with her last birth, like she was, she has quite a fast metabolism. She loses body fat quite quickly. She's naturally a bit more on the skinny side Ectomorphs right there you go, ectomorphs, yeah. So like for her to drop weight like it's, it's not too bad. Her weight comes off pretty easily.
Speaker 2:Um, but I've I've had guys and girls where they're just more prone to like not wanting to lose weight but they're have a really easy time putting on weight, even putting on muscle, but when it comes to peeling off the body fat, things are just a lot more, a lot slower. Um, so you can do a couple of things with those kind of people is just extend the period of the prep, try a couple of different strategies in terms of implementing refeeds, diet breaks, really pay attention to how their body is physically looking like, stress management, what the foods are looking like, adherence levels are looking like, and make sure all those things are in check. I think Jeff Alberts too, like my past coach for the show two years ago, like he's kind of the same way, where his weight doesn't want to come down too easily but he tries to not focus too much on that so, yeah, just having a little bit more time to prep for somebody like that.
Speaker 2:So if somebody's like can get lean real easy they started a lower body fat percentage like 18 week prep could be fine for them. If somebody starting around the same body fat percentage but they're a bit more stubborn, maybe adding an extra five weeks to that to give a little bit more wiggle room. Because it's better to know that you're ahead of schedule than behind schedule. It's better to know that you're ahead of schedule than behind schedule. I know when I ever feel behind schedule I'm always stressing about the weight. Cortisol and stuff, water retention all that kind of stuff can mess with you in terms of what the scale is saying. Try not to focus too much on the scale for those individuals. I would probably just have them weigh in three or four times a week. Get that average. I've even had people have their significant other take like take a photo of the scale or write down the scale well, like the other person's not seeing what that number is, just to not have them get in their head about that scale number.
Speaker 2:But uh yeah those are probably the main things, just a little bit time. Try not to focus too much on the scale for those individuals. Focus more on how things are looking and maybe even utilizing like waist measurements too, because that can be another indicator is things actually tightening up? The scale is not showing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you make a really good practical methods for a lot of individuals to track their progress and just be sure that you are making progress just a little bit slower, and it does tend to go a little bit slower the leaner you get, and so don't be alarmed by if everything just all suddenly like slowed down or just stopped, like us for these past two weeks. We're not that stressed out about it a little bit. We're not that stressed out. Yeah, um, I think also there's there's. There's something about, uh, first timers. We don't really have this problem because we're in the field. However, I think for first timers, they're not born in a community where everybody else are bodybuilders, so not everybody may understand what this first competitor is actually doing and they'll probably be dealing with comments. People don't understand bodybuilding, so has any of your past or current athletes have a difficult time dealing with these?
Speaker 2:yeah, so that's, that's a common thing, like that's funny, like my past client, shane, like his mom, like he would have like a family dinner every sunday and she would always encourage him to eat more. Oh, you're looking skinny, and stuff like this. Pretty much every single one of my clients, especially when they're getting to that tail and where they're getting to the severe levels of severe low levels of body fat, like everybody around them, is like hey, man, you're looking sick, like oh, like you're looking small or you're like is there, you're also depleted so sometimes that can get into people's head space.
Speaker 2:Um, so just understanding, like there's gonna be people around you when you're severely lean, you're not gonna be filling out your clothes as much, since a lot of, like the volume of your physique is coming from body fat. So, like when you're losing that, things are going to be fitting looser. Face is going to be sucked in more. If you have like a shirt on, it might look like you don't really work out, but when you pull it off you're like holy shit, like so, like there's going to be those kind of things. That's again.
Speaker 2:You just have to understand that the guy's probably going to happen at some point in your prep and understand that that's, that's okay, like it's it's normal to be feeling the way you're feeling when you're super deep in the prep. Like a lot of times when they feel those symptoms deep in the prep, they almost assume something's wrong with them. Like they assume like hey, like I don't think something's right, like I'm just a little bit more out of it, I'm getting more light-headed, I'm more irritable, and like sometimes they feel like there's something wrong and that's a lot. Oftentimes just their body like saying okay, like you need to get more food in like you're getting to unhealthy levels of
Speaker 2:body fat. So it's your body kind of fighting it. So just allowing and accepting that state that like, no, you're not gonna die, you're not gonna starve to death, so your body's gonna eat up protein for fuel. If you're like getting on the edge of dying, it's like you're still getting plenty of food and you're just kind of going in a gradual pace. So, like a lot of people just get, I would say like people get worried for them and then they start getting worried about themselves and then sometimes that can create some issues. But just understanding that deep phases, you are going to be looking pretty rough at times, feeling pretty rough at times, and that is normal. Refeed, diet breaks can help reduce those kind of symptoms. Have you feeling a bit more?
Speaker 1:normal. Some people will feel those symptoms more severe some people not so much.
Speaker 2:I think we talked about last time where most people have a body fat kind of set range where they sit in comfortably People that have a higher body fat set point where they sit naturally when they're really under that, they're going to have more severe symptoms. People that naturally sit a little bit leaner, they're probably not going to have the same extent of symptoms They'll still have them. Have to the same extent of symptoms, they'll still have them. But um, just understanding.
Speaker 1:Everybody's going to have different, different symptoms up here when they're, when they're getting really lame too yeah, I agree, having these influences beside you for first timers or even non-first timers, I think, finding yourself, you know, in community groups. So that's why I do think that there's a strong community building within bodybuilding, because everybody feels that this is a very difficult sport. I would call it a sport. Disagree with me if you want to. Bodybuilding is a sport. So that's why everybody gets along.
Speaker 1:Everybody knows, understands, you know how difficult it actually gets on the diet up front and how long the sports actually prolongs. So you're only spending maybe, probably like less than five minutes on stage, but you've been preparing for these 30 seconds to two to three minutes on stage for like at least eight months and that's why our seasons are, you know, kind of a little bit longer compared to other sports, um, for just that little while of of glory you would say. So finding community groups are going to be definitely, um, very, very helpful, um, just everybody's very supportive on you know what you're doing and we're always welcoming for, uh, new bodybuilders coming to the community. Wouldn't say that, oh, you're not, we, you, we rarely hear any, any, any situations where we're we're very rarely hear any, any, any situations where we're very unwelcoming for for people who want to take part in the sport, because it's really, it's a challenge to yourself.
Speaker 1:It's not like as mean as this sounds, like it has nothing to do with us, it's just you. Um, yeah, you might be standing next to us, but, however, this is your battle and just shine. Just shine in your own little way. But we also get this idea that peak week is your you know, quote unquote magic week and, as I think we talked about in the previous two seasons, that it is not, and I think it's also been debunked for quite a while now. But, like, how would you? Like, how would you manage first timers?
Speaker 2:no-transcript that I always like to tell myself, I always like to tell my athletes, is like this is only a short period. Moods are going to fluctuate too, so there might be times in prep where you're like, wow man, this is, this is tough, like I don't know how much more I can take of this, and then you have the next day, the next morning, oh man, I feel great, like I'm ready to go. Then it's just. It kind of goes like this. So, understanding, with every low, there's going to be a high and there's going to be a low.
Speaker 2:So, like when you're noticing that you're having a tough time in prep, you're noticing that you're getting into more arguments or getting into, like, just having a bit of a harder time staying kind of neutral with your emotions, just like taking a step back. Um, understanding, okay, like, though you can be a bit more irritable and you can notice things that are more annoying than they seem more annoying than usual. Like it's probably something that's not actually like this person's probably not intentionally trying to do this, or you're probably you just become more aware of these things. So, understanding that like, hey, like take a breather.
Speaker 2:Like this isn't like the end of the world, like you're just a bit more air, to be a bit more hungry once you get some food new, once you get some rest, like things are gonna chill out if you're feeling like overwhelmed, like that's something that I find personally like I started dealing with, especially if I have a big day of work and I'm trying to get it all done and I'm feeling a bit more overwhelmed, just like setting some time to like chill out, meditation, write in a journal or something like that and just like keep in a good mental space, cause I found this sport, especially in those deeper phases, phases where you're getting really lean, it's more of a mental game than an actual physical game, like when you're kind of halfway through, your energy gets quite low. But well, like this is gonna be individual. I find. For me personally, it's more just mentally trying to keep everything together up here rather than like going through like I can hit my nutrition I can hit my training it's just like making sure I'm staying sane up here.
Speaker 2:So spending more time on your mental health, spending more time going out for walks or doing something in nature, off of social media too. Like social media, I find in prep, everything gets amplified. So, like you know, when you're on social media for too long, sometimes people can get anxious or compare, you can start obsessing yourself over others and all these kind of things that generally come from social. Too much social media time. I find that gets a bit more amplified when you're prep. Same with, like, stressors for work. So something that generally stresses you out is probably gonna feel like bigger than usual.
Speaker 2:So that's where just learning to manage that stress is just a big component.
Speaker 1:Um, during those, those later phases, yeah, I agree, and talking about just trying ways to, you know, relieve that sort of stress. It's inevitable, for when social media is so convenient, it's like in the tip of your hands. You know to look at other competitors or be curious on what other competitors are actually doing and you'll just start digging up. You know who has hashtagged this organization or this show. So for me it works. For me, I usually try to stay out of it and that's how I mess up my social media algorithm. I start looking at very stupid reels. That was very, very stupid reels. That has like it's a time waster and it just get a good laugh out of it and it kind of calms. It doesn't calm me, but it takes my mind off things. Try not to look at watch like food stuff, that's. I think it would be a little dangerous when you're like in deep prep. If you just look at like food stuff, some people can deal with it, like I can If I see it, and you know I would want to eat it those milk box stuff where you can just listen to them eating and then cooking. You know, no, no, no, that's not a very good idea to do that, but yeah, it's just, that's just my way of doing it, but, you know, walks for you. Oh, there's also another one that I've been, um, I've been digging into lately. It's not the good. It's not a very good season now, since it's still, you know, winter and there's snow outside that's finally snow in vancouver here, by the way, for the two weeks, and then they'll be done. So what I've been doing I can't wait for the season to start is when, come late march or in late april.
Speaker 1:You know what car I drive? Yeah, the jeep, right, yeah, yeah. So this, this this winter, I've been, uh, low-key, doing a little bit of mods and some some of you have, if you guys been following my story I have been on a couple of trails very easy trails right now, since whatever my Jeep can handle. So those are just my way of a supplementing of walks. This is a hobby that I can do. That wouldn't really take into effect in anything I do in in terms of, you know, prep or anything like that. So just, I think that's what I'm trying to say here is just find yourself, finding yourself like a hobby which is not non-food related and something a little bit more active. It definitely helps. Take your mind off things and then you just create a little bit more hobbies.
Speaker 1:I understand, like many of us have, you know, like not nine to five, but you're kind of like committed into a certain time where you have to do your job, so just time outside that you're only set for work for this many hours a week, so let's say 40 hours a week. That's where you're committed. You're committed time for work and then the rest of the times you're prepping, you're lifting, and then you still have a little bit of time left. So find yourself a good hobby to do. You know, like, as during prep, yes, we encourage, you know, higher activity levels to actually help the energy output versus input. But you know, let's try not to find a sport that you can easily injure yourself, like, in this season, snowboarding or sneak skiing. These kind of sports are a higher risk for injury. If you're injured and you hurt yourself in one of those more delicate joints like your wrist and those, and it will affect your lifting and that's all goes downhill from there.
Speaker 2:Five years ago, like when I did the prep got canceled due to COVID but I actually got a concussion snowboarding side. I had to stop. So like, yeah, like those kinds of sports, like you can do them I've had clients that do them but it's just, you just got to understand like, yeah, there is a potential for getting injured. If that is in part of, is part of your major hobby or something you really enjoy and it's worth the risk, do you go for it. It's just, yeah, finding that fine balance because, yeah, that can definitely throw off your prep. But, yeah, having that environment with friends that are doing similar things, that aren't so focused on partying and drinking and like consuming a lot of food, like trying to have that, is a huge thing.
Speaker 2:Night routine and morning routine can definitely help manage like stress and sleep. I do notice for me personally, personally, quite a few of my clients to um strep sleep generally gets less and less throughout prep. So if you can manage like your nighttime routine, make sure you're winding down and get like a good solid eight hours of sleep, you'll feel so much better than on days where you're only getting like four or five hours of sleep because, like, that's one thing I really messed up last prep is I would sleep like five hours. I'm like fuck it, I'm just gonna get up, go to the gym at like four in the morning, get my workout and come back. But I realistically should have just stayed in bed, tried to get another three hours sleep, even though my brain was like wired. So making sure that you're prioritizing rest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is there anything else you wanted?
Speaker 2:to add to it. Uh, no, I, I think that's everything, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think it's a quite a, quite a bit information for first timers to absorb, and we also took a little bit of time for you guys to listen for us to ramble about our lives, um, but yeah, so this closes out our, uh, third episode. Uh, I hope you found these information useful and, of course, if anything, just feel free to leave us a comment down below, or even watch it on our Instagram as well, so you can follow us individually. Of course, you know, follow us on Lifting Nerds podcast on Instagram and YouTube. We will be going through comments and maybe suggestions in all the comments platforms, so you can find us there and until next time. We'll see you again soon, thanks.